Oct. 16, 2023

Behind The Spotlight: A Hollywood Producer's Journey with John Foy

Behind The Spotlight: A Hollywood Producer's Journey with John Foy
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Season 3

Join us for a captivating dive into the world of show business with Hollywood producer, John Foy. With over 30 years of experience, John shares insights from his journey, from Camp Hill, Pennsylvania to the star-studded streets of LA. Hear about producing Oscar ceremonies, Elton John's last show from Dodger Stadium, Arrested Development and the realities of the Reality TV industry.  John also talks about the challenges of adapting to new technologies such as AI and the changing dynamics of TV production.  John's wisdom and advice are invaluable for aspiring producers. Whether you're a film enthusiast or dreaming of a career in entertainment, this episode offers an unforgettable journey.


To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - Career Journey of Hollywood Producer

07:46 - Journey Into the Entertainment Industry

19:08 - Career Growth and Live Events

29:27 - Technology's Impact on Media Industry

35:47 - The Evolution of Television and Film

50:43 - Insights From a Hollywood Producer

01:00:08 - No Wrong Choices

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.805 --> 00:00:10.048
Welcome to no Wrong Choices, where we explore the career journeys of accomplished and inspiring people to uncover secrets of success.

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I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by the other fellows, tushar Saxena and Larry Shai.

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For those who might be joining us for the first time and for those who haven't done this yet, please support no Wrong Choices by following us on your podcasting platform of choice and by giving us a five star rating.

00:00:25.690 --> 00:00:37.646
We also encourage you to join the conversation by connecting with us on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram, youtube and X, by searching for no Wrong Choices or by visiting our website at nowrongchoicescom.

00:00:37.646 --> 00:00:57.790
This episode features the Hollywood producer, john Foy, who's been active in the business for over 25 years and involved with a wide range of big projects, including arrested development, concert films with Elton John and John Mulaney, the Oscars, reality shows like the Biggest Loser and a ton ton more.

00:00:57.790 --> 00:00:59.404
Tushar is our well.

00:00:59.404 --> 00:01:00.768
I guess, larry, you are too.

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However, in this case, tushar is our passionate movie guy.

00:01:05.391 --> 00:01:07.280
Why don't you lead us into this conversation?

00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:18.668
All right, so we've had the opportunity on the show before to talk about, to talk to guys who've been directors, talk to a number of actors, and we always talk about like, how do you get into, how do you get into show business?

00:01:18.668 --> 00:01:32.611
And there are so many different ways to get into show business and John Foy is one of these guys who is you know it's not an insult to say he's not a creative type he is one of these guys who make the movie magic happen, right.

00:01:32.611 --> 00:01:37.492
So, yes, not everyone's going to be Martin Scorsese, not everyone's going to be Robert Redford.

00:01:37.492 --> 00:01:44.468
You need the other guys out there to help put the sets together, who help do the sound design, who help scout locations.

00:01:44.468 --> 00:01:46.504
John Foy is one of those guys.

00:01:46.625 --> 00:01:53.706
And so if you're ever wondering how do I make it, how do I break into the business, how do I get into movies, how do I get into television, well, you know what?

00:01:53.706 --> 00:01:56.628
There are other ways to do it than, say, I have to be in front of the camera.

00:01:56.628 --> 00:02:07.284
There's a ton of other things you have to do behind the camera, and John Foy kind of lays out that groundwork as to I want it to be in the business, but I didn't want to do it the conventional way.

00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:08.423
I love that thought T.

00:02:08.423 --> 00:02:10.569
And you know what is a producer.

00:02:10.569 --> 00:02:15.022
I mean like you hear the word, like we all know what an actor is, we all know what a director is.

00:02:15.043 --> 00:02:15.264
Exactly.

00:02:15.784 --> 00:02:17.310
Yeah, so what is a producer?

00:02:17.310 --> 00:02:18.824
What do you do?

00:02:18.824 --> 00:02:21.687
What's your day like, I mean, and how do you get into it?

00:02:21.687 --> 00:02:23.586
I mean, is there a producer school somewhere?

00:02:23.586 --> 00:02:24.282
I don't even know?

00:02:24.282 --> 00:02:31.783
So yeah, I'm really curious to hear what John has to say about his day to day, how he gets work, what he does.

00:02:31.783 --> 00:02:39.460
Fascinating, fascinating conversation upcoming here, because we all have that little mystery thing about a producer.

00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:41.485
Okay, I kind of know what that is, but what is it?

00:02:41.727 --> 00:02:48.652
Absolutely, and for me, I'm looking forward to hearing him talk about how technology has impacted the industry.

00:02:48.652 --> 00:02:54.586
I've been in the business for 25 years and the industry has literally flipped upside down in that time.

00:02:54.586 --> 00:03:05.012
So I'm just eager to hear about, you know, artificial intelligence, how that's going to impact the business now, and I should point out that this episode was recorded prior to the writer strike ending.

00:03:05.012 --> 00:03:10.050
We kept some of his thoughts in the episode because they're really, really interesting.

00:03:10.050 --> 00:03:12.586
With that, here is John Foy.

00:03:12.586 --> 00:03:14.284
John, thank you so much for joining us.

00:03:14.284 --> 00:03:16.100
Thanks for having me, john.

00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:24.489
Before we get too far into the story and into the journey, we like to just get a feel for where our guest is today.

00:03:24.489 --> 00:03:33.770
So can you tell us a little bit about you know, what you do, what you're currently doing and, beyond that, what a producer actually does for a living?

00:03:34.390 --> 00:03:34.831
That's funny.

00:03:34.831 --> 00:03:39.651
My unfortunately deceased mother asked me that question until the day she died.

00:03:41.264 --> 00:03:42.389
She's like what do you do?

00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:45.989
She tell all her friends what shows I was doing, and then she'd say no, what do you do?

00:03:47.881 --> 00:03:55.784
A producer the shortest way that I've kind of called it down over the years to be as a producer is the person who was.

00:03:56.045 --> 00:04:02.066
If everything goes correctly, someone else gets the credit and if it goes wrong it's your fault.

00:04:02.066 --> 00:04:13.331
So what that means is you know, what I do is not creative, it's all nuts and bolts, and production for is the term that you know it kind of falls under.

00:04:13.331 --> 00:04:29.988
So I will be called in and asked to put a budget together and then from that budget we lock it and then from that point on we hire the director, we hire the other creative producers, we hire the set designer, lighting designer, things like that, camera operators.

00:04:29.988 --> 00:04:44.569
So I kind of start with the show is X and then you know, I put a calendar together, I put a budget together, like I said, then we go out and hire people, then I manage the show and then the post production of the show.

00:04:44.569 --> 00:04:50.384
There's people that deal with that, but I oversee the money of that and then we deliver it and then I move on to the next project.

00:04:50.384 --> 00:04:56.351
So it's it's a kind of an overarching, overseeing money, nuts and bolts job.

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Got it.

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And then, what's the difference between a producer and an executive producer?

00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:07.310
How much you get paid and how much you do Fair enough.

00:05:07.310 --> 00:05:10.687
So the higher up you go, the more you get paid, the less you do.

00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:11.971
All right.

00:05:11.971 --> 00:05:20.047
So I guess, on top of that, I'll ask, I'll ask this to follow that question Does your job, is your job awesome or does your job suck?

00:05:20.047 --> 00:05:21.550
Both?

00:05:23.762 --> 00:05:24.704
Because I can imagine.

00:05:24.764 --> 00:05:32.410
I can imagine, because I mean, let's be honest, you know when you have to, when you have to juggle that many plates it can be, it can be daunting.

00:05:33.372 --> 00:05:34.543
Yeah, and it can be.

00:05:34.543 --> 00:05:36.208
It can be incredibly frustrating.

00:05:36.208 --> 00:05:39.488
It can be incredibly fulfilling, exciting.

00:05:39.488 --> 00:05:42.809
I mean there's nothing like doing a live show and it's starting.

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I mean, then the train is running and there's nothing you can do about it, but pray, everybody does their job and you've hired correctly and you've set everything up correctly.

00:05:50.389 --> 00:05:56.728
So that is incredibly stressful and then, once it starts, it's the greatest.

00:05:56.728 --> 00:06:07.708
It's just like the perfect plan doesn't always go as planned and the biggest mistakes sometimes turn out to be the best parts.

00:06:08.449 --> 00:06:08.730
All right.

00:06:08.730 --> 00:06:09.963
So let me ask you.

00:06:09.963 --> 00:06:34.863
Let me ask you this, then, because I think a lot of us have heard this term a great deal, which is called a show runner, right, and a lot of people associate that with, let's say, a writer on a show, that the head writer is sometimes considered like an executive producer or called a show runner, and obviously what you've said is that you deal more with the logistics of a show putting together a crew, putting together dealing with dealing with the money, dealing with other pieces of logistics.

00:06:34.863 --> 00:06:42.386
So what is the difference, what is the primary difference between a show runner and then what you do, or are you also considered a show runner?

00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:47.689
I think you cleared it up pretty well.

00:06:47.689 --> 00:07:05.466
The show runner at that term tends to be a creative role that tends to be someone who either came up with the show 100% is usually a writer, someone who is the creative leader of a show, versus a me who takes what that person wants and puts it together for him.

00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:10.088
I almost think we would have been better off saying what does a producer not do?

00:07:10.088 --> 00:07:14.685
Because you do everything, as Tee says, you wear so many hats.

00:07:14.685 --> 00:07:20.084
This is my favorite part of the show every time, and that is taking you back to young.

00:07:20.084 --> 00:07:21.487
You, however old.

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You want to bring us back to and start to talk about your dream and how it started.

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Was it this, was it something else?

00:07:28.444 --> 00:07:34.649
Well, bring us back to your youth and talk about where this kind of happened for you.

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What was the dream?

00:07:36.213 --> 00:07:39.620
All right, it's going to get pretty corny, but it's all true, that's cool.

00:07:42.105 --> 00:07:43.288
That's one of the points of the show.

00:07:46.220 --> 00:07:59.132
I grew up in Campbell, Pennsylvania, which is right in the middle of the state, just across the Susquehanna River from Harrisburg, and was always interested in performance to some extent.

00:07:59.132 --> 00:08:04.552
I did magic shows for my family and talent shows and things like that as a kid.

00:08:04.552 --> 00:08:08.009
I was in a crappy rock band as a kid.

00:08:08.009 --> 00:08:20.726
I did some musicals in my high school as a kid and then in the 70s we came to California on a family trip and we went to Universal Studios and back then Universal Studios was actually a studio tour.

00:08:20.726 --> 00:08:25.982
You get off halfway, you have lunch, you get back on, you continue on the train for the rest of the day.

00:08:25.982 --> 00:08:27.447
It was fantastic.

00:08:27.447 --> 00:08:28.904
You saw all kinds of stuff.

00:08:28.904 --> 00:08:31.588
Wow, this is really neat.

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And then, for whatever reason, it dawned on me that that could be a job.

00:08:35.730 --> 00:08:36.945
And I didn't know what that was.

00:08:36.945 --> 00:08:42.424
I didn't know if that was a producer, which I didn't know at the time, what that was, a director, a stuntman.

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I just knew that was really exciting and neat.

00:08:45.447 --> 00:08:56.248
So then cut to college, which I went to Temple University in Philadelphia and I majored in what was then called a radio, television and film.

00:08:56.248 --> 00:09:02.384
Now they've kind of split it up and they're all kind of their own majors and have a bunch of majors underneath them.

00:09:02.384 --> 00:09:08.991
But there I learned kind of theory and practical hands-on stuff.

00:09:08.991 --> 00:09:28.442
Most of that equipment doesn't exist anymore or is in a museum and I worked for a security company in Philadelphia and saw a bunch of concerts, so it was always kind of around entertainment and performances and live performance and things like that.

00:09:28.442 --> 00:09:41.514
And I did it in May and moved to California in… Volkswagen Jetta from Camp Hild in Los Angeles and took a couple weeks and saw the country and I've been here ever since.

00:09:42.501 --> 00:09:50.971
So let me, let's go back a little bit to college, because it sounds like you know you saw the Disney world experience and that obviously maybe sparked a dream.

00:09:50.971 --> 00:09:54.799
But I was looking and I'm like you know, there's no producer school.

00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.168
Like how do we go to school to be a producer?

00:09:57.168 --> 00:10:02.196
But you talked about nuts and bolts and actually taking some classes.

00:10:02.196 --> 00:10:03.500
What was your major at Temple?

00:10:04.241 --> 00:10:05.485
It was called at the time.

00:10:05.485 --> 00:10:10.570
It was called radio, television and film, so it kind of was a okay shot of all of them.

00:10:11.221 --> 00:10:15.340
How much of that nuts and bolts stuff you said a lot of it doesn't exist today.

00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:22.706
But you know, at that point are you thinking producer, are you thinking you're old, you know be in film, making movies like.

00:10:22.706 --> 00:10:25.173
How does that thought process go at this point in your life?

00:10:26.642 --> 00:10:28.929
It would be far more impressive if I could say that.

00:10:28.929 --> 00:10:29.753
But I didn't know.

00:10:29.753 --> 00:10:31.860
I knew I wanted to do something.

00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:39.518
I didn't know what all the pieces were at the time, but I just knew that I wanted to be in Los Angeles doing something now.

00:10:39.518 --> 00:10:49.149
At the time I told you I'd been out here with my family in the 70s to a California trip and we went to Universal and that's where I saw the stuff I mentioned.

00:10:49.149 --> 00:11:03.306
But then, at the time, when I was in college and graduating from college, disney in Orlando was making a big push to have their studios open and it was going to become the quote-unquote, you know, hollywood of the East Coast.

00:11:03.306 --> 00:11:11.428
Now my mom, being in Pennsylvania, was very keen on me going to Orlando instead of Los Angeles, but the rebel and me ended up in Los Angeles.

00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:14.767
All right, I want to ask you about your trip to Universal.

00:11:14.767 --> 00:11:16.552
Who were some of the stars that you saw?

00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:19.615
Frankenstein you.

00:11:20.701 --> 00:11:20.942
So wait.

00:11:20.942 --> 00:11:21.686
So you saw Carl off.

00:11:23.384 --> 00:11:25.279
No, I saw some guy dressed as him.

00:11:27.489 --> 00:11:27.568
Oh.

00:11:34.681 --> 00:11:38.620
Let's just say we didn't see anybody, you know, but it was just the excitement of it very, very cool.

00:11:38.779 --> 00:11:43.897
So you're in your jet a, you drive across the country, you get to LA, and then what?

00:11:43.897 --> 00:11:44.940
How do you break in?

00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:47.190
What's that first opportunity?

00:11:47.190 --> 00:11:49.038
What's your, what's your objective?

00:11:49.038 --> 00:11:49.559
What happens?

00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:53.373
So, again, I had done a little bit of research.

00:11:53.373 --> 00:11:57.404
What was a better area, not so better area, what I could afford?

00:11:57.404 --> 00:12:04.046
And I had moved out to Los Angeles with a high school friend who was my.

00:12:04.046 --> 00:12:07.092
I have an older sister and she's two years older and she was.

00:12:07.092 --> 00:12:24.751
He was in her grade, and so the two of us drove out, him and his Ford, tempo or something, and me and my Jetta, and then we got a Hotel in Marina del Rey which doesn't exist anymore, the buildings there, but it's not a hotel anymore.

00:12:25.994 --> 00:12:30.908
And we Got an LA times, because there was no cell phone, there was no computer.

00:12:30.908 --> 00:12:32.913
I'm dating myself dramatically.

00:12:32.913 --> 00:12:44.166
We went to the Century City Mall and there was a bank of pay phones and we opened up the LA times and we would call all the apartments that we could afford and leave the pay phone Number as our callback number.

00:12:44.166 --> 00:12:52.840
Wow, sit there all day at the tables next to the phones and one of us would go walk Around the mall with the other one waited, and then vice versa, and then the phone would ring and we'd answer it.

00:12:52.840 --> 00:13:02.087
They'd say sorry, the rooms or the apartments not available, or can you come by it five o'clock, or whatever the answer was, and that's how we ended up with our first apartment.

00:13:03.861 --> 00:13:07.135
That sounds very much like the scene for, like the opening scene of a movie.

00:13:07.376 --> 00:13:12.940
To be quite honest, I feel like I stole it from the secret of my success, which was the Michael J Fox.

00:13:13.581 --> 00:13:15.586
I'm sure I like that, to be quite honest with you.

00:13:15.726 --> 00:13:17.971
Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where I stole that idea.

00:13:20.263 --> 00:13:25.907
So, john, so so that first gig that you get in Hollywood, so like, what is that first job that you get in Hollywood?

00:13:25.907 --> 00:13:31.259
And how is it that you, you know, essentially you're, you've obviously got to beat down doors and figure out how to get yourself on a lot.

00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:32.765
So how do you get yourself on a lot?

00:13:33.763 --> 00:13:34.587
so what I did.

00:13:34.587 --> 00:13:59.773
My my course led me from a friend of my uncles back in Pennsylvania who and it's been a while so I'm sure I'm not getting this totally factually right but I ended up at a post-production facility in North Hollywood and working in the tape vault and back then everything was shot on tape and it literally was like a library where you would bring your project to a post-production house.

00:13:59.773 --> 00:14:03.139
You'd bring your tapes that you'd shot to the vault.

00:14:03.139 --> 00:14:04.969
They would check them in one by one.

00:14:04.969 --> 00:14:07.059
Each one would have a barcode so nothing got lost.

00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:11.567
And then you'd have a shelf of your stuff and then when you came to edit, they'd bring it to the edit bay.

00:14:11.567 --> 00:14:14.121
You'd work on it and then when you're done, they take it back.

00:14:14.162 --> 00:14:20.389
And that was my job to check things in, you know, keep things organized, take them to edit sessions and back.

00:14:20.389 --> 00:14:23.860
And that was a job that I do know better.

00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:24.683
I loved it.

00:14:24.683 --> 00:14:26.072
I was just doing stuff.

00:14:26.072 --> 00:14:27.639
I was, you know, meeting producers.

00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:42.809
I was, there were shows on TV that I was aware of, that were editing there, and it was all paid in cash, which at 21 in 1989 I didn't understand that I had to keep money for taxes, but we'll get into that.

00:14:45.062 --> 00:14:45.547
All right.

00:14:45.567 --> 00:14:46.778
So let me just tell you this now.

00:14:46.778 --> 00:15:06.940
I can kind of I can relate to what you're saying, because back in the day when I was first starting out in the industry myself, I want the radio route, which I am still in today, but one of my very first jobs was was over with MLB production and To see their tape room with all these with all you know, with with just you know, game after game after game.

00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:11.543
I mean, like you know, if you're a sports junkie, that's heaven and Absolutely.

00:15:11.543 --> 00:15:13.940
Though I didn't make friend, I didn't make a lot of friends in that place.

00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:25.960
I made friends with the archivist because that guy had had the, had his hands on all these tapes and you could, if you Get a tape every now and then, to watch an old game back from like the 70s or from the early 80s.

00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.410
That was gold man, I know exactly, yeah, talking about.

00:15:30.764 --> 00:15:31.855
Yeah, it was great.

00:15:31.855 --> 00:15:37.679
I Didn't say that job, you know was was an indefinite ending to that job.

00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:44.649
So I was working away there and one of you know as this process I'm about to explain to you still happens to this day.

00:15:44.649 --> 00:15:45.852
I was working in the vault.

00:15:45.852 --> 00:15:47.479
A show came in a.

00:15:47.479 --> 00:16:03.932
A Person that does what I do now needed some production assistance on an upcoming show, asked me if I'd be interested, and then I was met with the dilemma Do I leave the cushy vault job per cash or do I go and work on a real show?

00:16:03.932 --> 00:16:07.139
So of course I, you know, didn't know what to do.

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:12.705
I called my mom and she's like I don't know, that vault job sounds pretty stable, you might want to keep that so.

00:16:13.405 --> 00:16:15.932
So of course I said, well, you know, the show sounds pretty good too.

00:16:15.932 --> 00:16:22.672
So I went and did that and Two weeks into the show the show got pulled and I was without a job again.

00:16:22.672 --> 00:16:24.947
So that kind of sucked.

00:16:24.947 --> 00:16:28.269
But again the same concept happened.

00:16:28.269 --> 00:16:35.827
The one of the other producers on that show was producing a show at the Pan-Date Pantages theater in Los Angeles called the Grammy living legends show.

00:16:35.827 --> 00:16:44.606
Which were the honorees were Andrew Lloyd Webber, willie Nelson, liza Manelli and Sonny Robinson.

00:16:44.606 --> 00:16:46.029
Oh my god, son, wow.

00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:47.111
I'm amazing.

00:16:47.133 --> 00:16:47.734
Come on.

00:16:47.734 --> 00:16:51.087
So smoke, smoky Robinson, I mean like you can't go wrong.

00:16:51.087 --> 00:16:59.879
So you know I was All in and you know I love music and it was in a legitimate, you know beautiful theater.

00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:01.734
It was a television show.

00:17:01.734 --> 00:17:12.742
It was like nothing I I had, I had died and gone to heaven and you know that was purely by, like I said, this process that today to this day, continues to happen In the freelance world.

00:17:12.742 --> 00:17:15.930
You know you, you're as good as your last job, you know.

00:17:15.930 --> 00:17:19.266
You know by reputation, right place at right time.

00:17:19.266 --> 00:17:26.865
You know 90%, 80% of my career is luck being in the right place at the right time, making the right decision.

00:17:26.865 --> 00:17:29.868
Somebody falls out, you step in, like that.

00:17:29.868 --> 00:17:32.900
The stories go on and on All right.

00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:40.660
So I always tell folks sometimes that one of the biggest, one of the one of the biggest attributes Someone has to have is prove that you're not a prove that you're not a moron.

00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:47.090
So if you can prove you're not a moron, you're pretty much Guaranteed to kind of work your way up the ladder, so to speak.

00:17:47.090 --> 00:17:53.469
So, john, is that some is that kind of the case, like you know, in your networking days you're just able to prove you're able to kind of do the job.

00:17:53.469 --> 00:17:57.566
When you went from gig to gig, Absolutely.

00:17:57.970 --> 00:17:58.920
I am to this day.

00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.847
I tell people there there are a few things that you can control.

00:18:01.847 --> 00:18:02.830
One your reputation.

00:18:02.830 --> 00:18:03.765
I you know.

00:18:03.765 --> 00:18:07.603
Say please and thank you, no matter what level you are, help out.

00:18:07.603 --> 00:18:11.394
You know, I dump trash on set still just because it's just.

00:18:11.394 --> 00:18:13.903
If it's there and I can help out, why not?

00:18:13.903 --> 00:18:15.489
What else am I gonna do so?

00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:18.769
Okay, the little thing, the little things matter, the little things matter.

00:18:19.700 --> 00:18:20.261
Absolutely.

00:18:20.261 --> 00:18:24.566
I love how you talked about 80% of your career being luck.

00:18:24.566 --> 00:18:36.480
I mean that's amazing, right, like producer feels like that for me, that it's a lot of relationships and people and being at the right place at the right time, as you talked about I Guess.

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:45.103
My question is is you, you had to make a lot of choices between going freelance and that steady gig, not just in the beginning, right?

00:18:45.103 --> 00:18:49.894
Was that through your whole life that you're kind of making these choices in terms of your, your profession?

00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:55.289
Yeah, I mean, I've had a few jobs.

00:18:55.289 --> 00:18:59.856
You know, in the very, very there's a production.

00:18:59.856 --> 00:19:02.201
Come down here, end them all.

00:19:02.201 --> 00:19:02.782
That does.

00:19:02.782 --> 00:19:05.026
You know a ton of stuff.

00:19:05.026 --> 00:19:06.548
If you're looking up, you know half of their shows.

00:19:06.548 --> 00:19:11.540
I mean, when they first came to Los Angeles they were looking for a head of production.

00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:17.635
So I threw my hat in the ring and I got the job and seven months into it I I realized I don't like that position.

00:19:17.635 --> 00:19:20.863
I like doing the show, I don't like checking in on a show.

00:19:20.863 --> 00:19:26.861
So those have come up from time to time and you know, the older I get, the more I think about them.

00:19:26.861 --> 00:19:54.009
But I feel like Somehow and there's a lot of us out here I'm no genius, there's a lot of us out here that I I really enjoy not knowing what's next and Somehow, in 30 odd years, 1989 to now, whatever that math is, it's, it's, it seems to have worked out and I've got, you know, a daughter graduating college this coming year and another one graduating high school, going into college and been married for 24 years.

00:19:54.009 --> 00:20:00.277
So somehow I've been able to keep this going so hopefully listening to this rat rats me out.

00:20:01.653 --> 00:20:20.438
Well, john, as you look back, you know, coming out of that archivist, archivist role, you know what were some of the, the bigger breaks that you got that propelled your career forward earlier on, like you said, that don't be an idiot and you will continue to get hired, which is true Be polite, be respectful, work very hard.

00:20:20.458 --> 00:20:25.164
I remember that, that Grammy living legends show, that first variety show I did.

00:20:25.164 --> 00:20:29.997
I remember staying With the script department late one night.

00:20:29.997 --> 00:20:36.876
It was like 2 am and they said, okay, since you stayed late, you can come in Whatever at 11 tomorrow, not at the 8, like everybody else.

00:20:36.876 --> 00:20:42.609
And I drove home and I woke up at 6 or 7 or 8, whatever time it was.

00:20:42.609 --> 00:20:45.262
I thought, do I sit around here or do I go back?

00:20:45.262 --> 00:20:46.789
And I didn't go back to like kiss ass.

00:20:46.789 --> 00:20:56.144
I didn't go back to like show them anything, I just went back because I was excited, they wanted to work and they responded to that in a very positive way.

00:20:56.144 --> 00:20:57.448
So you're not supposed to be here yet.

00:20:57.448 --> 00:21:01.825
And I said, well, you know I'd really, I, I just want to be here and help out any way I can.

00:21:01.884 --> 00:21:09.298
And you know, again, that was pure luck that I did that, because I just wanted to be around it, I wanted to be involved and I wanted to see things.

00:21:09.338 --> 00:21:13.957
And that was, you know, something that dawned on me Wow, if you put in, if you put in hard work.

00:21:13.957 --> 00:21:32.309
Good people notice that not everybody does, but good people notice, you know, hard work and I've been very fortunate to, you know, be Not mentored it wasn't set up that way but in essence, mentored by a lot of, you know, very, very losers that you know I do what they did when what I met them.

00:21:32.309 --> 00:21:41.240
There's a guy named Greg Sills who is a legendary variety producer and by luck, you know, he was producing a couple of the shows that I worked on.

00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:49.121
He called me to do one show and, like four years later, he said you need to leave because You're you're above the job that I have for you.

00:21:49.121 --> 00:22:02.102
But I had the you know Him looking over my shoulder the whole time, allowing me to make mistakes or be to ask him questions, and that was a pivotal part of my growth in my career.

00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:03.731
Interesting.

00:22:03.731 --> 00:22:16.021
You know, looking at a lot of the work that you've done with live events and things of that nature, you know, was there a particular Project that that you really, you know, took a leap forward with?

00:22:21.931 --> 00:22:23.375
I'd say most recently.

00:22:23.375 --> 00:22:40.443
You know, we did a big Disney Plus show At the Hollywood Bowl this past November for the movie in Kanto, where we brought the whole cast back together and did a live performance of it with a 75-piece orchestra and 50 dancers and the full cast of incanto.

00:22:40.443 --> 00:22:51.459
And we did it for three nights at the Hollywood Bowl and and then eight days later we did the live final show of Elton John, also for Disney Plus.

00:22:51.459 --> 00:23:16.180
And you know another example of being in the right place at the right time I I Backing up the company I did both of those shows for us, the same company, and the way I met them was a year before that there was a Netflix show that they were doing and the me at the time quit and A friend of mine got the call to replace him.

00:23:16.682 --> 00:23:17.665
She couldn't do it.

00:23:17.665 --> 00:23:18.589
She said call John.

00:23:18.589 --> 00:23:23.019
So I met these guys, did the show it's okay show whatever.

00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:24.549
Fine, you know it was over.

00:23:24.549 --> 00:23:29.029
So then this in Kanto at the Hollywood Bowl show comes up.

00:23:29.029 --> 00:23:33.800
They called me because they had seen my work, you know, on the other show with them and did that.

00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:40.490
And then they get Elton John Mid prep for incanto and they said do you think you can do both and I said absolutely.

00:23:41.092 --> 00:23:43.019
I can do both eight days is plenty of time, of course.

00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:46.232
Come on Like any.

00:23:46.232 --> 00:23:55.414
Any sane person would have said you might want to get somebody else, but you know we pulled it off and it was very, very hard, but it was incredibly fulfilling and exciting.

00:23:55.414 --> 00:23:59.179
And you know, it's just that those things happen over and over.

00:23:59.179 --> 00:24:07.201
So it's Emmy nominated who knows when the Emmy nominate Awards will happen, but we're nominated for an Emmy for that, which is very exciting.

00:24:07.201 --> 00:24:09.876
So, yeah, I mean those kind of things.

00:24:09.876 --> 00:24:13.279
There's a lot of them, but that's I would say is the most recent one.

00:24:14.971 --> 00:24:15.192
All right.

00:24:15.192 --> 00:24:16.415
So, john, let me ask you this art.

00:24:16.415 --> 00:24:17.640
Would you consider yourself?

00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.297
All right, let me, I'm gonna ask a couple of different questions.

00:24:20.297 --> 00:24:22.281
I'm gonna ask a couple of short questions here.

00:24:22.281 --> 00:24:24.679
So first, what was the first concert you ever went to?

00:24:26.172 --> 00:24:29.306
First concert I went like a national concert or like a local.

00:24:29.627 --> 00:24:32.769
Yeah, whatever, I mean the first concert you can remember ever going to, that you really enjoyed I.

00:24:33.951 --> 00:24:38.903
Feel like the first concert I saw was Joe jet in the black hearts in Harrisburg Pennsylvania.

00:24:39.810 --> 00:24:40.432
Wow, okay.

00:24:40.432 --> 00:24:45.309
So would you consider yourself more of a music guy or, let's say, a TV film guy?

00:24:48.318 --> 00:24:52.390
I'm going to answer it, probably not to your satisfaction, which I feel like I am a Me.

00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:57.386
I'm a music fan first and I've had the luck of being able to do music on television.

00:24:57.386 --> 00:24:59.884
I'll tell you what.

00:24:59.903 --> 00:25:27.953
Because Actually, that is very much the answer I was thinking about, because when I look at your, when I look at your resume, it screams to me that this guy, a loves live events, b is a huge music fan and like when you talk about like your music fan, like when you talk about like you're, when you talked about, like you know, being able to get to work with, as a young, as a Younger man, work with, you know, smokey Robinson and Willie Nelson and Liza Manelli, I mean, come on, this is this to me sounds like what.

00:25:27.973 --> 00:25:37.249
This is what really kind of gives you juice, the notion of doing a live show as compared to doing, you know, let's say, a produce show, because I mean, obviously the juice is totally different.

00:25:37.249 --> 00:25:52.049
And I think I would love to hear, like, what is the difference between, or what is the primary difference between, doing, let's say, scripted programming as to doing, as to doing a live show or, you know more, a live type of music performance?

00:25:52.049 --> 00:25:54.416
And then you know what is that?

00:25:54.416 --> 00:25:56.491
What is that primary, what is that?

00:25:56.491 --> 00:26:00.301
Or how much can you quote unquote script of a live musical performance?

00:26:02.050 --> 00:26:14.500
Well, for example, elton John, the thing we did at Dodger Stadium, that was a tour that had pretty much, with Including the COVID time off toured for about four years.

00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:19.317
The Dodger Stadium shows there were three of them.

00:26:19.317 --> 00:26:23.278
It was a Thursday, a Friday and a Saturday Were 100% sold out.

00:26:23.278 --> 00:26:32.213
We somehow and I remember being in the meeting when the director said he wanted to put 28 cameras in Dodger Stadium what planet are you on, dude?

00:26:32.213 --> 00:26:43.448
Like this place is sold out and it's you know, he's notoriously protective of his audience and not putting crap in their way and great sound and great performance.

00:26:43.448 --> 00:26:47.758
And we ended up with 28 cameras in Dodger Stadium by the time we ended up shooting.

00:26:47.798 --> 00:26:56.589
But wow it, the, the excitement of a live show is like nothing I do in my life.

00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:13.589
It's it is you, you set it up, you set all the pieces in place and at some point at 8 o'clock pm, whatever time it is, if it's for you know, for the East Coast, it's 5 pm Like when that switch gets thrown and you know you're on the air.

00:27:13.589 --> 00:27:22.069
There's nothing like it and, like I said, that train starts and if you've done your job, it all goes off and with a scripted show or a non-live show.

00:27:22.069 --> 00:27:25.558
It can go on and on and on.

00:27:25.558 --> 00:27:31.336
Because it can go on and on and on and people want to redo things and they don't make decisions.

00:27:31.336 --> 00:27:32.903
So they try it four different ways.

00:27:33.425 --> 00:27:38.348
With a live TV show, you've got to stick to your decisions, you got to believe your decisions and you have to execute them.

00:27:38.348 --> 00:27:45.480
And Two hours later, an hour later, three hours later, whatever the show is, everything you've worked for is over.

00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:56.950
In a scripted show, then you take all the pieces and it starts over, but in a different fashion, which is you edit and you try it this way, you try it that way, and then you get others opinion and then you second guess yourself.

00:27:56.950 --> 00:28:08.376
And so the live part of it, just for the immediacy of it, it's, you know, that old adage of you know when someone's on stage and they can get an immediate response, as opposed to shooting a Movie and getting a response a year later.

00:28:08.376 --> 00:28:11.990
I think that's part of this live fascination that I have.

00:28:13.714 --> 00:28:17.612
So you prefer the live to the scripted, absolutely.

00:28:17.612 --> 00:28:23.589
So when you look at some of the the biggest events that you've worked on, like what are your top three?

00:28:23.589 --> 00:28:24.875
Can you come up with a top three?

00:28:24.875 --> 00:28:25.678
Is that possible?

00:28:27.431 --> 00:28:37.040
Yeah, I'm not in any order, but I would say Elton John's one of them, the Season of arrested development that I did, which doesn't fall into anything I just said.

00:28:38.951 --> 00:28:39.854
That's quite all right.

00:28:42.031 --> 00:29:00.188
And then, to be honest with you, I just did John Mulaney's most recent special that's out on Netflix right now and and because of him, and because it was just a small group of the director, who was also the EP, john and myself running it, it was just a very wonderful experience.

00:29:00.188 --> 00:29:05.832
So whether it looks like that or not to, you know, a viewer doesn't really matter to me.

00:29:05.832 --> 00:29:08.124
As far as my experiences, that was one of the better ones.

00:29:08.183 --> 00:29:11.612
I Gotta tell you I actually really enjoyed Baby J.

00:29:11.612 --> 00:29:15.204
I I watch Baby J and I'm not just saying this because you're here with us.

00:29:15.204 --> 00:29:21.565
I actually didn't even realize you'd worked on it till till actually, before we kind of had a chance to look over your resume.

00:29:21.565 --> 00:29:23.230
I enjoyed Baby J a lot.

00:29:23.230 --> 00:29:24.875
I thought it was really well done.

00:29:25.826 --> 00:29:27.169
Thank you, yeah, it was it.

00:29:27.169 --> 00:29:47.825
You know he had John at tour that show for a few years and Before I even was involved and hadn't even met John yet, my daughter's a big fan and we saw in a very, very early Stop in Long Beach, california, and then it to right or in toward, and then it came back around and it was right before Christmas.

00:29:47.825 --> 00:30:03.913
He was playing somewhere here I forget where, and at that point you know I had been hired, we had zoomed, we had talked on the phone, and so I, she and I went to see him there and we talked to him after you know the show and he was very sweet to my daughter and we talked about stuff that we had decided in coming week.

00:30:03.913 --> 00:30:21.093
And he, he is a student of entertainment and a very smart guy, an incredible boss and, just like I said, he in this the director, alex timbers, who's a Broadway director, which was an interesting choice and a fabulous choice it was.

00:30:21.093 --> 00:30:22.676
It was, it was a great experience.

00:30:24.205 --> 00:30:29.884
So how similar to that is like doing, how similar is a show like that to doing a live concert?

00:30:29.884 --> 00:30:38.153
I'd say like like in Kanto, in Kanto was, was a Massive undertaking.

00:30:38.255 --> 00:30:48.075
I don't know if you've ever been to the Hollywood Bowl, but there's a section in the front that's called the pool seats like a pool You'd swim in, because it used to be a pool and they used to have.

00:30:48.075 --> 00:30:56.768
I didn't know, that, like you know, performances in the pool, like when you see the, if you ever look at the Beatles footage from there, it's still a pool.

00:30:56.768 --> 00:30:58.513
At that point you see all the water.

00:30:58.535 --> 00:30:59.257
Like at the moment.

00:31:00.308 --> 00:31:02.285
Like if a Mormon, esther Williams.

00:31:02.285 --> 00:31:07.809
So that whole section Used to be a pool and now it's seating.

00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:09.252
So we decked out over that.

00:31:09.252 --> 00:31:10.517
The whole floor was LED.

00:31:10.517 --> 00:31:13.451
We had you know I forget how many spotlights.

00:31:13.451 --> 00:31:14.755
Like I said, we had 50 dancers.

00:31:14.755 --> 00:31:29.613
That place is not meant to hold 10 people, let alone the pundits we had on stage no 10th city, across the parking lot, which you, you know you want it right next to the backstage but you can't because that's a fire lane.

00:31:29.613 --> 00:31:29.733
Like.

00:31:29.753 --> 00:31:32.900
There's always a million reasons that go into a decision.

00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:44.554
And then what you don't notice, until you have to level a tent, is there is an incredible slope that goes From the top of the hill down to the bottom on Kowenga Boulevard.

00:31:44.554 --> 00:31:50.617
That you know is there, but Literally, I think, one end of a tent was, you know, at the ground level.

00:31:50.617 --> 00:31:55.916
On the other end, I think, was 14 feet the air, which makes for a very odd structure.

00:31:55.916 --> 00:31:58.184
And then you know, you put a tent up on top of it.

00:31:58.265 --> 00:32:02.186
But all those things, you know you're like, oh, we'll just put a tent in the parking lot, we'll do this.

00:32:02.186 --> 00:32:04.173
The tent, the floor is not level.

00:32:04.173 --> 00:32:12.269
You know those things and we somehow we pulled it off and we had, you know, traffic control, because you have to leave room for People to exit if they want.

00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:16.125
So he would block the street with guards as the dancers would run across the street.

00:32:16.125 --> 00:32:25.316
It was almost like I don't know if you ever seen when James Corden used to do those crosswalk Performances across that crosswalk, crosswalk Broadway is like that yeah.

00:32:27.726 --> 00:32:31.457
Yeah, so you know, we had this tent full of dancers, 50 dancers across the way.

00:32:31.457 --> 00:32:34.109
Security would they would hold at the gate.

00:32:34.109 --> 00:32:35.673
Security would block up the street.

00:32:35.673 --> 00:32:36.715
They'd run across things.

00:32:36.715 --> 00:32:39.550
They do it reverse Like so it was.

00:32:39.550 --> 00:32:46.036
The backstage was, just, as you know, eventful and as big a production is what people saw on stage, wow.

00:32:46.726 --> 00:32:53.578
Wow, what kind of parallels are there for doing something like that with the Oscars, because you had a big role in the Oscars, right?

00:32:55.026 --> 00:32:56.869
Not like the stuff I've been talking about.

00:32:56.869 --> 00:33:02.567
A friend, a very good friend of mine, has produced them for years and you know I've done Two Oscars.

00:33:02.567 --> 00:33:04.491
One was the year I don't remember.

00:33:04.491 --> 00:33:07.518
They did them out of the train station downtown in LA here.

00:33:08.548 --> 00:33:15.744
I do, I do at the Dolby Theater on Sunset which was actually built for the Oscars and it's on Hollywood Boulevard, built for the Oscars.

00:33:15.744 --> 00:33:19.714
And that year they decided they were going to do them down there.

00:33:19.714 --> 00:33:28.507
So they were presenting Forget what the actual award is called, but they, you know we are a remote into the bigger show For that.

00:33:28.507 --> 00:33:41.563
And then the last time I did them, which is just this past year, whenever that was in March, I guess it was Kelly and Ryan's morning show does a live show.

00:33:41.563 --> 00:33:49.710
The next day we go on there at 6 am, 9 am in New York, so the Oscars ends 8 o'clock, whatever.

00:33:49.710 --> 00:33:59.067
At midnight we rehearse overnight and then at 6 am we go on the air and then at 7 am we're off the air and then I get my car and I drive home.

00:33:59.067 --> 00:34:01.695
So that that's my involvement the Oscars over the two years.

00:34:02.806 --> 00:34:04.893
Jobs yes, they are jobs, but it's not.

00:34:04.893 --> 00:34:12.585
You know that there there are other people doing what I would normally do, but again, as a friend to my friend and for sure to work.

00:34:12.585 --> 00:34:22.652
I'm, you know any of that stuff again, the theory of I always want to be able to Help out, pull something off, use my expertise elsewhere.

00:34:22.652 --> 00:34:25.938
You know he knew that if he gave that to me it was going to be handled.

00:34:27.266 --> 00:34:28.449
Yep, very, very cool.

00:34:28.449 --> 00:34:30.717
So, john, let me ask you this question.

00:34:30.717 --> 00:34:31.378
I'm curious.

00:34:31.378 --> 00:34:35.329
You know somebody who entered the business in the the early 90s.

00:34:35.329 --> 00:34:50.659
You know we fast forward 30 years and the industry the, the media industry has changed so much over that time, with the onset of different technologies and different platforms and the amount of data that's now available.

00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:54.193
How is that, you know, impacted your job?

00:34:54.193 --> 00:35:00.778
I'm sure it's drastic, but has it made your job harder, easier, like what are some of the things that that you can relate to it?

00:35:00.878 --> 00:35:32.786
as I lay that out, I Think I think it's definitely made it easier but not realized the easier part until it's kind of settled in, like, I think, the idea of cameras and Video trucks having tapes and having to get those tapes places and now you can Record in the truck but it's on a hard drive and also be feeding a post house at the same time, and those kind of things all make Everything easier.

00:35:32.786 --> 00:35:47.422
But getting to that point and being involved in having a career during the culminate the the creation and culmination of Getting from tape to tape lists and things like that I think that's the part that I'm glad I was involved in.

00:35:47.422 --> 00:35:57.914
I didn't like it at the time but I feel like now that I watched the change from one to the other, I understand it very well and I understand why it happened and I think it's better.

00:35:57.914 --> 00:36:00.349
But In the middle of it you're like why?

00:36:00.349 --> 00:36:00.871
What tapes?

00:36:00.871 --> 00:36:02.195
Fine, why are we doing this?

00:36:03.050 --> 00:36:04.061
Why do we have to change it?

00:36:04.061 --> 00:36:04.364
It's fine.

00:36:04.364 --> 00:36:11.538
But, you know, the images are better, the technology is better, the process is better, the speed is everything's better.

00:36:11.538 --> 00:36:17.085
But, like you know, change changes and always welcome, but it's in that case it's better.

00:36:17.085 --> 00:36:30.005
How intimidating is the the learning curve with with new things coming through if I was a Normal logical person I would say very intimidating, but I feel like I don't have a choice.

00:36:30.005 --> 00:36:32.293
So it's just part of the job.

00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:58.088
So in this instance, so in this instance, now that you've kind of gotten used to the changes that have happened, because I mean your career has spanned, I mean because you were, you were around for the first writer strike, yeah, and which was the birth, which was the birth of reality TV, right, the read shows like big brother, shows like you know, biggest loser, for that, for that matter, these were all essentially Came under your watch.

00:36:58.088 --> 00:37:11.985
And now that we've kind of, now that reality television has become so ingrained in the landscape, how do you feel about where television, where television and film, currently stands in this day and age?

00:37:11.985 --> 00:37:23.976
I mean, I mean it used to be where you know sports and then, and then let's say, live events, live concert events, those were reality TV, not not what we see with biggest loser now we see with you know big brother, etc.

00:37:23.976 --> 00:37:26.710
Those were reality TV.

00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.016
I mean, were you happy or sad to see that?

00:37:30.706 --> 00:37:35.295
Well, I mean a Big chunk of my career.

00:37:35.295 --> 00:37:50.992
A chunk of my career went from the variety area into reality and then back to variety, and you know, in that that I'm thinking it was like to the early 2000s.

00:37:50.992 --> 00:37:59.762
I mean I had a very, very good run of reality shows and Again, that was some of the best, absolutely Thanks.

00:37:59.922 --> 00:38:00.224
Thank you.

00:38:00.224 --> 00:38:01.005
Yeah, it was.

00:38:01.005 --> 00:38:09.288
It was fun and it was the Wild West and like the rules were being written as we did it or after we did it, and you know it was.

00:38:09.288 --> 00:38:15.791
It was really fun and really exciting and you know a Genre that you said was born from.

00:38:15.791 --> 00:38:17.233
There's a writer strike.

00:38:17.233 --> 00:38:18.217
What do we put on TV?

00:38:18.217 --> 00:38:28.972
And that was cheaper and faster and all that kind of stuff was true, but it's kind of evolved into Not cheaper programming, so to speak.

00:38:28.972 --> 00:38:43.106
I mean, in the big big picture you take a season of CSI and you take a season of reality show XYZ, residuals, things like that, which is obviously part of where we are today being fought over that.

00:38:43.106 --> 00:38:59.577
They, they are still cheaper, but the the cost per episode Back then and the cost per episode now, like we different, and you know you're not seeing this dearth of reality shows taking the place during the strike that you did back then.

00:39:01.447 --> 00:39:01.827
You still?

00:39:01.827 --> 00:39:05.099
Do you think the industry is still worth going into?

00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:11.137
If you're, you know, starting out that's actually probably awkward the way I said that.

00:39:11.137 --> 00:39:25.673
Does the industry still afford opportunities to those who just kind of want to say I just kind of want to produce television programs and I just want to make good content?

00:39:25.673 --> 00:39:27.304
Does that still exist?

00:39:29.603 --> 00:39:33.452
Absolutely, and it existed in far more ways than before.

00:39:33.452 --> 00:39:47.342
Like, I mean, the concept of putting something on a YouTube, or a lot of these shows have been born out of people doing it themselves, and that wasn't even.

00:39:47.342 --> 00:39:52.152
You couldn't even comprehend how that could be possible when I started.

00:39:52.152 --> 00:40:17.971
I mean, you needed cameras and lights and all these things, and VHS cameras were what everybody had, and then maybe it got into these I forget what the format was but these smaller ones, dv cams and things like that but, like the idea of shooting your own stuff and being able to afford your own talent and crew and things like that just didn't exist, and now that's a giant part of the direction this is going.

00:40:17.971 --> 00:40:21.867
So, yes, I would say absolutely yes.

00:40:23.983 --> 00:40:40.648
So if you're a young person who's trying to break into this business, I mean, is it critical and imperative for just young kids to just start producing and start creating in that way, just to kind of develop some chops, so to speak?

00:40:41.570 --> 00:40:42.371
It seems like it.

00:40:42.371 --> 00:40:53.775
I mean, I'm a big fan of education and I think, as a well rounded person and as a whole person, I think an education is very important.

00:40:53.775 --> 00:40:55.505
I think you can do both.

00:40:55.505 --> 00:41:00.391
I think you can do like you said is just, you know, start making your own content and things like that.

00:41:00.391 --> 00:41:25.983
But I think, in the long run, a degree whether it's a radio, television and film like mine, or an English degree or a sociology degree, whatever the degree is you know, I've got friends that were lawyers and started writing for various shows and haven't been back in the courtroom in 20 years, because they just are fantastic writers and they have this law and how the courts work.

00:41:25.983 --> 00:41:40.228
Just because you're a sociology major, just because you're a whatever major, doesn't mean that your talent of making content, like you said, is not equally as strong and you're just a better, more well rounded person that makes television.

00:41:42.099 --> 00:41:47.431
Would you prefer to be working now as a young person, or working back then, when you started?

00:41:48.719 --> 00:42:01.768
I mean I, just because I know what I've done I would say back then I think it's a different, it's a different world now and I think it's you know back then.

00:42:01.827 --> 00:42:05.063
I guess that's my real question, like because it's such a different world.

00:42:05.063 --> 00:42:06.423
Like, do you find?

00:42:06.423 --> 00:42:23.793
Do you find now that with all the technology, with all the ability that, with, with all the ability to just kind of make anything you want on sometimes a shoot, a shoot, string budget, is it easier to create content now and be in the industry now, so to speak, than it was back then?

00:42:23.793 --> 00:42:24.554
As you said a moment ago.

00:42:24.554 --> 00:42:28.827
Right, you said, look, you would need, you would need a crew, you'd need lights, you'd need tapes, you'd need cameras.

00:42:28.827 --> 00:42:30.862
So would you rather be?

00:42:30.862 --> 00:42:40.110
Would you rather have the knowledge you have now and be a young person starting now, or would you rather have the knowledge you have now and be a young person starting when you started in the industry?

00:42:40.460 --> 00:43:02.016
I feel like and again it's very biased because I'm picking what I did, but I feel like the education in how to produce TV show that I got on some of the people I've previously mentioned and the era that I came up in has made me the professional that I am.

00:43:02.016 --> 00:43:09.349
I feel like if I was starting now, I feel like we said it's a different world and it's a just in general.

00:43:09.349 --> 00:43:13.456
It's a more urgent world and a more immediate world.

00:43:13.456 --> 00:43:15.887
You know, like yeah thank.

00:43:15.927 --> 00:43:24.284
God I didn't have cell phones and I'm going to sound 500 years old here, but thank God you know I didn't have cell phones with you, man, don't worry about it.

00:43:25.340 --> 00:43:37.952
I think, all the stuff were like you know, these, these poor kids, like you know, there's a tsunami in Japan which, if I even knew about it as a kid, I could give a shit because it came out five days later in a newspaper.

00:43:37.952 --> 00:43:42.692
Right Now, like their phone dings and like my kids go, is there going to be a tsunami here?

00:43:42.692 --> 00:43:45.666
And I'm like, what world do we live in?

00:43:45.666 --> 00:43:57.762
That these, you know, they're just inundated with information and I think, as professionals, I think that kind of transfers into that where everything's immediate, everything's global, everything's got to be huge, everything that's seen by millions.

00:43:57.762 --> 00:44:05.344
You know that that's a different, different mindset than you know, where, like you said, we're roughly the same age.

00:44:05.344 --> 00:44:06.862
That's that's.

00:44:06.862 --> 00:44:08.088
That's what I started, yeah.

00:44:08.831 --> 00:44:10.141
Yeah, and we all did.

00:44:10.141 --> 00:44:12.606
You know, and you know it's funny, like even for us.

00:44:12.606 --> 00:44:24.273
We came into the radio business a long time ago and in different ways, and now you know we're we're doing a podcast and it's so easy in a lot of ways to get, get the content out there.

00:44:24.273 --> 00:44:28.110
It's just, it's a it's a completely different planet than than when we all broke in.

00:44:28.110 --> 00:44:33.148
So you know, john, when you look at you know some of the projects that you have coming up.

00:44:33.148 --> 00:44:34.512
You just mentioned John Mulaney.

00:44:34.512 --> 00:44:37.326
What are some of the things that are on the horizon for you?

00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:43.786
Unfortunately right now not a lot because of the strike.

00:44:43.786 --> 00:44:48.215
You know, there there was a bunch of stuff culminating and it all came to a screeching halt.

00:44:48.215 --> 00:44:50.588
Well, I mean, it came to the screeching halt.

00:44:50.588 --> 00:44:54.048
It came to a slow halt with the anticipation that this was going to happen.

00:44:54.048 --> 00:45:07.876
We're all very excited when the directors Guild figured their agreement out and thought that's going to be the catalyst because now both sides kind of know where that one ended up and hopefully that'll end this sooner than later.

00:45:07.876 --> 00:45:10.449
And then, you know, sag After goes on strike.

00:45:10.449 --> 00:45:13.690
So now we've got two unions that are done without writers.

00:45:13.690 --> 00:45:16.650
There's not a lot of shows that are done that are not SAG After.

00:45:16.650 --> 00:45:28.914
So you know, I was lucky enough that I have this 10 comic, you know, up and coming kind of showcase that'll get cut into a couple of episodes for Netflix.

00:45:28.914 --> 00:45:32.920
That doesn't fall under any of those agreements.

00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:37.188
So we're shooting that in New York in this month.

00:45:37.188 --> 00:45:38.672
Very cool.

00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.951
And Netflix is going to do their comedy festival again this spring.

00:45:42.951 --> 00:45:46.391
So there's again lots of talk about things there.

00:45:46.391 --> 00:46:01.833
There's a couple of other things that I've been, you know, that are kind of on hold and definitely until this gets figured out, and so there's always, you know, more like I have not worked since the pandemic kind of got itself straightened out in our business and the safety procedures.

00:46:01.833 --> 00:46:11.833
You know that we spent millions of dollars on and I know a lot of people are not happy with us being able to work and you know why can Hollywood work and we can't?

00:46:11.833 --> 00:46:14.039
And I can talk for years on that if you wanted to.

00:46:14.179 --> 00:46:23.833
But anyway, once that got figured out and we put all those into place, I have had the busiest, you know, blessed two years of my life.

00:46:23.833 --> 00:46:32.574
So you know, I always say if I knew I was going to be on third, two or whatever it is, then I would enjoy the month or two or whatever it is.

00:46:32.574 --> 00:46:40.842
But you know, not knowing when the next show is going to come along because of a strike or, god forbid, another pandemic, that's when.

00:46:40.842 --> 00:46:42.427
That's when I get uneasy.

00:46:42.427 --> 00:46:49.791
So right now it's all fine and you know, hopefully this strike will end in the next bit of time.

00:46:49.791 --> 00:46:51.063
But you know it's not.

00:46:51.063 --> 00:46:53.768
It's not as busy for any of us as it was.

00:46:54.690 --> 00:46:57.427
You know, whatever it was, have you restarted your old rock band?

00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:04.990
No, we don't want to have the boys gotten back together?

00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:15.509
We're spread out all over the country so that would take a bit of time, but anyway actually, it's good that you brought up the SAG-AFTRA strike.

00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:17.764
Wanted to ask you about it.

00:47:17.764 --> 00:47:20.166
So who's right and who's wrong?

00:47:20.166 --> 00:47:22.146
Or is there not a right and a wrong?

00:47:23.019 --> 00:47:31.751
This is my, only my opinion, but the, the idea that you know, the, the, the streaming is a big deal.

00:47:31.751 --> 00:47:33.690
Ai is a bigger deal.

00:47:33.690 --> 00:47:55.340
I, as a producer not because I made the rules, but as a producer I have benefited from how these unions are covered under streaming shows, which there are a ton of, as you all know right now, and it's become its own format and it's not getting any smaller, it's only getting bigger.

00:47:55.340 --> 00:48:00.262
And I'm shocked, and it's purely because of the cycle of the contracts.

00:48:00.262 --> 00:48:09.413
But like, this does not surprise me one bit that it's not settled surprises me because I think again my opinion.

00:48:10.054 --> 00:48:11.965
On a Monday, they say we are going to resolve this.

00:48:11.965 --> 00:48:15.340
They talk for a week, both sides are unhappy and they resolve it.

00:48:15.340 --> 00:48:34.342
And everybody, including the poor, you know sandwich shop across Warner Brothers and the chair vendor and the cleaning people who live paycheck and any, you know all the people that are affected forget the writers, forget the actors, forget the producers, forget the crew member, like all the obvious ones.

00:48:34.342 --> 00:48:47.005
There are such a tentacles that reach out into a community, especially this town we live in here, that you know people are going under because of this and not just you know the obvious ones.

00:48:47.005 --> 00:48:49.157
So I feel like that.

00:48:49.157 --> 00:48:58.315
To me, the pieces that go into it are the pieces that go into it and three months from now they'll do exactly what I just said that they could do this week.

00:48:58.315 --> 00:49:00.784
It's just it's a bit of a stalemate right now.

00:49:00.784 --> 00:49:06.097
They're not at the table and you know both sides aren't going to be happy, 100% happy, and that's the way it's going to be.

00:49:06.097 --> 00:49:22.742
That's how all these labor negotiations go and it's it's frustrating because I feel like you know a lot of lives and a lot of, you know people's businesses are going to suffer, because you know something that could be resolved in a week or two or three is going to take months and the same resolution is going to happen.

00:49:23.184 --> 00:49:36.155
How significant is that or how significant I won't even say on the horizon, because it's here how significant is AI as a player in this negotiation, in this in the industry right now?

00:49:37.298 --> 00:49:38.059
I feel it's a huge.

00:49:38.059 --> 00:49:42.777
I mean just that it's incredibly scary, just as a human being.

00:49:42.777 --> 00:49:59.304
I mean, like you hear these stories of where they put two super computers together, talking together, and they, like you know, they get in 48 hours, they get 20 years ahead in their problem solving and it's just, yeah, it's really quite scary and that you know.

00:49:59.304 --> 00:50:13.121
I think there's again I don't know enough about how you could compensate actors, how you could protect actors, how you could protect the public from seeing something that's not real and not understanding it's not real.

00:50:13.121 --> 00:50:20.210
Like you see all these things with a president or a world leader saying you know, I sanction a bomb strike.

00:50:20.210 --> 00:50:28.949
That's not real, they've never said it and if you're not paying attention it's, you know, believable and if you're paying attention, it's getting better and better by the minute.

00:50:28.949 --> 00:50:34.155
So it's just as a forget the actor part of it and what's compensation and things like that?

00:50:34.155 --> 00:50:36.902
Just the concept of it is quite frightening.

00:50:37.043 --> 00:50:38.726
So if so, what?

00:50:38.726 --> 00:50:41.539
I guess it kind of goes back to what I was gonna ask you again.

00:50:41.539 --> 00:50:45.447
Okay, so strike aside.

00:50:45.447 --> 00:51:01.099
You're coming out of college, you're coming into Hollywood first time whether it's in your, your Jetta or your Jeep first time out you that person somehow finds you on a lot.

00:51:01.099 --> 00:51:03.706
What's that piece of advice you give them?

00:51:03.706 --> 00:51:05.498
What's that one piece of advice you give them?

00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:10.295
I tell everyone I do a lot with my college.

00:51:10.295 --> 00:51:21.320
I talk to classes out here, I go back to classes in Philadelphia and I can't stress enough to be like, like we said before, be polite, be a good person, say please and thank you.

00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:36.405
One because you should and two because this is a very fast-paced, very small town and you're only as good as your reputation and if you're a polite, good, hard worker you will go very far and your.

00:51:36.405 --> 00:51:40.456
Any other limitations you may have are kind of not.

00:51:40.456 --> 00:51:43.077
They're not overlooked, but they're accepted more.

00:51:43.077 --> 00:51:46.532
If you're an asshole and you're not good, you're sunk.

00:51:46.873 --> 00:51:49.224
If you're an asshole and you're good you kind of get a pass.

00:51:49.346 --> 00:51:53.891
But yeah, if you're asshole and you're and you're really good at your job, you get a bit of a pass.

00:51:53.891 --> 00:51:58.449
But eventually the assholes get caught up too.

00:51:58.630 --> 00:52:00.496
Favorite movie and or television show.

00:52:01.902 --> 00:52:04.289
Favorite movie and or television show favorite?

00:52:04.289 --> 00:52:07.641
I'm a huge Saturday Night Live fan.

00:52:07.641 --> 00:52:17.365
I wanted to work on that from from a childhood perspective and I'm just too old and lazy and I live here and not there.

00:52:17.365 --> 00:52:21.380
And movies I had a good question.

00:52:21.380 --> 00:52:25.608
Movies, movies, movies.

00:52:25.608 --> 00:52:28.534
Huge blazing Saddles fan.

00:52:28.534 --> 00:52:32.342
Loved the North by Northwest.

00:52:32.342 --> 00:52:38.320
North by Northwest is one of my all-time favorites so I'm kind of all over the map.

00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:40.487
You know similar with my music taste I fan of.

00:52:40.487 --> 00:52:43.289
But you know people's like what, what do you like?

00:52:43.289 --> 00:52:45.498
And I'm like I kind of like everything you know I'd like.

00:52:45.498 --> 00:52:49.115
I'm not ashamed to say I'm a huge Huey Lewis and the news fan.

00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:51.380
Awesome.

00:52:51.380 --> 00:52:52.864
Why should you be ashamed to say this?

00:52:52.864 --> 00:52:54.347
Send me some great music.

00:52:55.436 --> 00:52:56.518
Sports is a great album.

00:52:56.518 --> 00:53:00.047
Yeah, I'm a zeppelin fan, so I like everything.

00:53:00.047 --> 00:53:03.034
There are a lot of things not everything, but a lot of things.

00:53:03.141 --> 00:53:06.063
If there was a concert that you could produce?

00:53:06.063 --> 00:53:08.532
So you've done the Elton John stuff.

00:53:08.532 --> 00:53:10.539
I saw that you did something with slash.

00:53:10.539 --> 00:53:11.923
You had all these different projects.

00:53:11.923 --> 00:53:15.581
If there was an artist that you could produce a concert for, who would that be?

00:53:16.403 --> 00:53:17.525
If I could do.

00:53:17.525 --> 00:53:32.487
It was the summer of my freshman year in high school and I kicked myself for not going if I could produce a live-aid show similar to the live-aid show 1985.

00:53:32.608 --> 00:53:32.996
Oh, wow.

00:53:33.117 --> 00:53:33.639
I would.

00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:48.590
I would love to do that, that, that to me, and I would like to say it's for the philanthropy of it, it's not, it's for the scope and for the, the, the chess match and the Tetris game that I have to put together to produce it.

00:53:49.695 --> 00:53:54.487
Wow, absolutely come on that was undoubtedly one of my favorite memories.

00:53:54.487 --> 00:53:59.456
I remember flipping my my cassettes over and over, recording that concert all day long.

00:53:59.456 --> 00:54:00.621
That was such a great day.

00:54:00.742 --> 00:54:06.490
Yeah, and I mean, I've watched DVDs of it and it's not well done and but it was well done for the time, you know.

00:54:06.490 --> 00:54:11.514
But looking back on it, it was, it was messy, there were mistakes and it didn't matter, it was just.

00:54:11.514 --> 00:54:14.141
It was just mesmerizing to watch.

00:54:15.463 --> 00:54:16.387
Oh my god, absolutely.

00:54:16.387 --> 00:54:17.128
Yeah, I remember that.

00:54:17.235 --> 00:54:27.764
Well, I imagine although hopefully for good reasons, although that was also for a good reason, but I imagined at some point there'll be another event like that that maybe you can get wrapped up with.

00:54:28.246 --> 00:54:30.516
Yeah, yeah, I mean, they've done, they've done.

00:54:30.516 --> 00:54:35.094
There was another one I forget how many years later, but that they did.

00:54:35.094 --> 00:54:39.097
It was on a much smaller scale and it was you know it was successful but it wasn't for me.

00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:42.730
No, it was like he called it like live Amnesty International.

00:54:42.730 --> 00:54:44.416
I think, yeah, I forget.

00:54:44.416 --> 00:54:47.304
But the, the, you know it wasn't the scope of it.

00:54:47.304 --> 00:54:48.547
The times have changed.

00:54:48.547 --> 00:54:51.204
You know that'll affect redoing it again.

00:54:51.204 --> 00:54:57.929
I think you know production and and bands are far more on a hill than they used to be like.

00:54:57.929 --> 00:54:58.371
You know that.

00:54:58.371 --> 00:55:05.244
Just that, the backstage footage of those things and trailers and everyone hanging out, you would hope would that come comrade, or he would happen again.

00:55:05.244 --> 00:55:06.489
But who knows?

00:55:08.215 --> 00:55:13.773
Well, we can hope and and with that, hopefully you'll be a big part of it.

00:55:13.773 --> 00:55:16.865
If that doesn't do, come together, john, you know.

00:55:16.865 --> 00:55:19.597
Thank you so much for the time that you gave us today.

00:55:19.597 --> 00:55:21.385
This was a fascinating conversation.

00:55:21.847 --> 00:55:22.108
Great.

00:55:22.108 --> 00:55:27.568
I really appreciate it and, like I said, I hope it cuts together and the the.

00:55:27.568 --> 00:55:34.407
When our mutual friend told me about this and it's such a great, I'd listened to many of them.

00:55:34.407 --> 00:55:37.844
It's just such a great library shows and it's it was really fun to do.

00:55:37.844 --> 00:55:39.811
Thank you, john.

00:55:40.014 --> 00:55:40.757
Appreciate it, john.

00:55:40.757 --> 00:55:41.518
Thank you so much.

00:55:42.521 --> 00:55:50.230
So that was John Foy, and I'm so happy to say that I now know what a producer does for a living.

00:55:50.230 --> 00:55:51.355
I always kind of guessed.

00:55:51.355 --> 00:55:55.858
I made it up, I sounded like I knew what I was talking about, but I didn't know what I was talking about.

00:55:55.858 --> 00:55:58.007
I now know, larry Che.

00:55:58.007 --> 00:55:59.936
What are your, your thoughts, coming out of that?

00:56:00.056 --> 00:56:05.242
It seems like you have a leg up on his mother, because even she didn't know what a producer was so good.

00:56:05.322 --> 00:56:06.206
Good on you on that.

00:56:06.206 --> 00:56:13.106
Yeah, it is good to hear about what this is and how it works and how he got into the business and thrived.

00:56:13.106 --> 00:56:22.856
I mean, for me it would be ultimately terrifying to have to freelance and piece my career together like one project at a time, but he seems pretty fearless about it.

00:56:22.856 --> 00:56:34.903
You know, and I guess when you're successful like he is no big deal right, you could just keep, keep the ball rolling and work with good people and you get projects and you do a great job and your reputation speaks for itself.

00:56:34.903 --> 00:56:37.519
But fascinating stuff.

00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:43.202
I mean, imagine having your hands in all of those different types of projects and how varied they were.

00:56:43.202 --> 00:56:53.322
I think I'm most impressed with the variants of the types of programs movies, concerts, everything that he's capable of putting together.

00:56:53.322 --> 00:56:58.721
Right, it's kind of wearing the same hat, but your subject matter is so different, you know.

00:56:58.721 --> 00:57:00.123
So, super impressive.

00:57:00.123 --> 00:57:08.264
What an interesting conversation and I, I too, feel a little more educated on what a producer is, which is fascinating yeah, I'll tell you what.

00:57:09.027 --> 00:57:31.820
When we all go to the movies now or watch a television show, watch it right to the end and I don't mean wait to the wait to the face to black and then leave the theater, watch the credits all the way to the end, army of people who help put that movie together, and guys like John Foy people like John Foy are the reason why that movie or that television show looks the way it does.

00:57:31.820 --> 00:57:35.034
And yes, there are other ways to get into the business.

00:57:35.034 --> 00:57:48.842
We should not simply always and I think we do, we do we do an injustice to it, sometimes too right, we always put an emphasis on oh my god, this movie look great, whether it was by square, say Z, or by, or by a Chris Nolan or the, or you know directors of that magnitude.

00:57:48.842 --> 00:57:51.735
Yes, they do an unbelievable job doing stuff like that.

00:57:51.735 --> 00:58:06.757
But at the same time, those, those pieces cannot be put together if it's not for the other people behind the scenes who get them, the cameras, who build the sets, who put together the, who put together the costumes that they were, that the actors wear.

00:58:06.757 --> 00:58:19.103
All these elements come together to put the product on the screen that we watch, and this is probably the main reasons why we've seen the writers, the writer, strike happen the way it did.

00:58:19.184 --> 00:58:22.057
Right, we, we had, we have these products out there.

00:58:22.057 --> 00:58:29.431
We know why they're striking and the reason what, and the reason was is because they are putting together a product for us to watch.

00:58:29.431 --> 00:58:32.827
It's not an easy thing to do and they need to be compensated for.

00:58:32.827 --> 00:58:33.692
And you know what?

00:58:33.692 --> 00:58:35.780
There are two sides to every story.

00:58:35.780 --> 00:58:37.588
John Foy was very.

00:58:37.588 --> 00:58:39.335
John was very, very candid about this.

00:58:39.335 --> 00:58:42.230
Yes, there are issues that have to be hammered out.

00:58:42.230 --> 00:58:43.695
Right, he's talking about AI.

00:58:43.695 --> 00:58:51.369
Ai is a real thing that is going to affect this industry and the fact that it's been taken care of in this sense is a good thing.

00:58:51.369 --> 00:58:57.199
So now we can all move forward and and hope that new programming is coming down the line and see kudos on you.

00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:04.545
You asked the question of the interview is your job great or does it suck?

00:59:04.606 --> 00:59:11.556
and the answer is always it's a little bit of both and as a fellow producer myself not obviously the magnitude of that I know exactly what it means.

00:59:11.556 --> 00:59:20.371
That it's it's both and you get that great guest, you get that great thing and it's awesome, and then if you don't land it, it terrible.

00:59:20.371 --> 00:59:21.958
So yes, it's an element of both.

00:59:21.958 --> 00:59:26.759
It's awesome and it sucks at the same time you know, you also asked a great question.

00:59:26.778 --> 00:59:31.338
I guess this is a two-share celebration of sorts to show.

00:59:31.338 --> 00:59:37.677
You also asked a great question about do you prefer doing live events or doing scripted stuff?

00:59:37.677 --> 00:59:55.121
And you could hear how much he enjoys doing live events as somebody who's passionate about music, to be wrapped up with an Elton John concert and some of the other things that that he's that he's done, you can just hear that that he's in the right place doing the right things.

00:59:55.121 --> 01:00:06.266
He enjoys every moment of the work that he's doing and he's had a chance to take his love of music into his professional life, which is which is really, really cool.

01:00:06.266 --> 01:00:07.416
So he found that spot.

01:00:07.416 --> 01:00:08.780
He found that niche for himself.

01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:14.463
So with that, john Foy, thank you so much for joining this episode of no wrong choices.

01:00:14.463 --> 01:00:16.317
We also thank you for joining us.

01:00:16.317 --> 01:00:27.954
If this or another journey story inspired you to think of a friend who could be a great guest, please let us know by sending us a note via the contact page of no wrong choices dot com, as I mentioned off the top.

01:00:27.954 --> 01:00:45.208
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01:00:45.208 --> 01:00:48.101
On behalf of Tushar Saxena and Larry Shay.

01:00:48.101 --> 01:00:49.304
I'm Larry Samuels.

01:00:49.304 --> 01:00:54.514
Thank you again for joining us and always remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success.

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We learn from every experience.