April 21, 2025

Captain Ken Petschauer: From Childhood Dreamer to JetBlue Captain (Part 1)

Captain Ken Petschauer: From Childhood Dreamer to JetBlue Captain (Part 1)
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Season 6

What does it take to turn a childhood dream of flying into a 30-year aviation career?

In this first part of our two-part conversation, we explore the incredible journey of Captain Ken Petschauer, a veteran JetBlue pilot with over 16,000 flight hours. From soloing a plane at age 17 before he could legally drive, to navigating the cockpit of some of the most iconic commercial aircraft, Ken’s story is one of passion, perseverance, and precision.

Raised in New York City with a deep love for aviation, Ken shares how early mentorship, academic focus, and relentless curiosity helped him build a life in the skies. Along the way, we learn about the complex path to becoming an airline pilot, the real-world experience behind flight simulators, and what it’s like to live out your dream at 35,000 feet.

Whether you're fascinated by aviation or inspired by people who relentlessly pursue their goals, Ken’s journey delivers career insights that soar.

Episode Highlights:

  • Getting his first pilot license before a driver’s license
  • Overcoming early career roadblocks and economic turbulence
  • The real path to becoming a commercial airline pilot
  • Favorite aircraft, simulator secrets, and life as a JetBlue captain
  • Balancing adventure, family, and flying

Don’t miss this engaging episode that explores what it truly takes to chase your passion and land your dream job in the skies. Tune in next week for Part 2, where Ken shares how he handles high-stakes decision-making, airline culture, and lessons from a life in the air.


To discover more episodes or connect with us:



00:00 - Ken's Early Aviation Journey

03:13 - Personal Life and Passions

06:34 - Educational Path to Becoming a Pilot

12:00 - The Process of Getting a Pilot's License

18:23 - First Real Flying Jobs

22:46 - Airline Career and Training Simulators

30:11 - Pilot Lifestyle and Work Schedule

40:03 - Episode Wrap-Up and Next Week's Preview

WEBVTT

00:00:03.125 --> 00:00:06.171
At 16, I probably took my first flying lesson.

00:00:06.171 --> 00:00:07.314
I soloed at 17.

00:00:07.314 --> 00:00:09.006
It's just always been my dream.

00:00:09.006 --> 00:00:18.472
Fortunate enough to live my dream for sure, the fear goes away because when you're in there in the cockpit it's like home.

00:00:18.472 --> 00:00:20.286
You're used to the sounds and everything.

00:00:20.286 --> 00:00:24.928
I became a graduate research assistant.

00:00:24.928 --> 00:00:30.032
I had some pretty good mentors then because they grabbed me by the throat and said don't throw this away.

00:00:30.032 --> 00:00:32.725
And I'm glad I didn't because it really helped me in my career.

00:00:32.725 --> 00:00:51.671
When you get into the crazy stuff, when they make us do these recoveries from 65 degree banks and all that other stuff, you have to basically turn the motion off because you'll either make yourself sick or damage the simulator because it can't you know it can't give you G's but you swear you're accelerating or decelerating in that simulator.

00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.493
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey Podcast No Wrong Choices.

00:00:58.493 --> 00:01:03.545
I'm Larry Samuels and I'll soon be joined by Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:01:03.545 --> 00:01:07.433
Our guest today is Captain Ken Petschauer of JetBlue Airways.

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Before we bring him in, please be sure to like, follow and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening.

00:01:13.153 --> 00:01:17.691
Your support enables us to keep bringing these great stories to life.

00:01:17.691 --> 00:01:20.820
Now let's get started Now.

00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:25.933
Joining no Wrong Choices is Captain Ken Petschauer of JetBlue Airways.

00:01:25.933 --> 00:01:32.754
Ken is a pilot who's been in the air for more than 30 years and logged more than 16,000 flight hours.

00:01:32.754 --> 00:01:41.852
I can't begin to imagine how many miles that is and, interestingly, he is also a ski patroller for the National Ski Patrol.

00:01:41.852 --> 00:01:43.643
Ken, thank you so much for joining us.

00:01:43.643 --> 00:01:46.129
Thanks, guys, glad to be here.

00:01:46.129 --> 00:01:49.463
Been looking forward to it as we look at you.

00:01:49.504 --> 00:01:51.611
You say that now yeah right.

00:01:52.602 --> 00:01:54.287
I feel like I need to ask this question going in.

00:01:54.287 --> 00:01:57.629
Are you actually talking to us from an airplane hangar?

00:01:58.219 --> 00:02:05.147
I actually am talking to you from my hangar right behind my house, the credibility is off the charts, yeah.

00:02:05.147 --> 00:02:07.254
from my hangar right behind my house.

00:02:07.313 --> 00:02:08.578
The credibility is off the charts, yeah.

00:02:08.578 --> 00:02:14.911
So, ken, we like to set up our conversations by giving our guests the opportunity to tell us who they are and what they do.

00:02:14.911 --> 00:02:18.328
I can run through a list, but it is nothing more than a list of bullet points.

00:02:18.328 --> 00:02:22.467
You know you better than anybody else, so please set the stage for us.

00:02:22.467 --> 00:02:25.950
Who is Captain Ken Petchour and what do you do?

00:02:26.979 --> 00:02:28.743
So I guess first you know the personal stuff.

00:02:28.743 --> 00:02:32.332
I'm married to a beautiful wife of 12 years.

00:02:32.332 --> 00:02:33.162
Her name's Alicia.

00:02:33.162 --> 00:02:36.730
She's very patient and amazing.

00:02:36.730 --> 00:02:42.926
You can yeah, you can imagine, and we have probably the best beagle hound ever created.

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He's eight years old and actually he's two, but they say that's a good thing.

00:02:47.104 --> 00:02:48.308
That is a good thing.

00:02:48.308 --> 00:02:50.887
Yeah, he's pretty neat.

00:02:50.887 --> 00:02:52.170
We're fortunate.

00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.228
We live a great lifestyle, very active.

00:02:54.228 --> 00:02:55.865
You know, I'm always outside.

00:02:55.865 --> 00:03:03.046
I don't actually sit still very well, which is kind of weird because my job kind of requires that, but for some reason that's different.

00:03:03.046 --> 00:03:06.121
So it always seems like we're out doing something.

00:03:06.121 --> 00:03:11.770
I'm always running or skiing in the winter or hiking.

00:03:12.893 --> 00:03:14.984
I've been lucky to have great adventures in my life.

00:03:14.984 --> 00:03:21.846
I've done long distance sailboat racing and small boats and adventure racing and helicopter skiing and all kinds of stuff.

00:03:21.846 --> 00:03:27.704
So always looking for another challenge or something that's new or different, kind of like this.

00:03:27.704 --> 00:03:31.691
And I'm also like the computer geek around here.

00:03:31.691 --> 00:03:39.441
It seems like I'm forever going to somebody's house to fix their Wi-Fi or build them a computer or fix something for them.

00:03:39.441 --> 00:03:48.626
I'm always tinkering with gadgets and electronics and 3D printing and things like that, always tinkering with gadgets and electronics and 3D printing and things like that.

00:03:48.645 --> 00:03:49.687
We also really like you know, new adventures.

00:03:49.687 --> 00:03:52.420
So we'll take the plane to towns and cities that we haven't been to before.

00:03:52.420 --> 00:04:00.973
My wife's big into history, so we like to go to historic towns and do stuff like that, and we also spend a lot of time up in North Carolina.

00:04:00.973 --> 00:04:02.199
That's where we do most of the skiing.

00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:08.092
I have a little cabin up there in the mountains, so that's pretty much what we do without getting too detailed Excellent.

00:04:08.092 --> 00:04:12.206
And then, professionally, I am a pilot for JetBlue.

00:04:12.206 --> 00:04:19.463
I've been with them now for 22 years and have before that I was with TWA.

00:04:19.463 --> 00:04:20.766
I don't know if you guys remember that airline.

00:04:21.166 --> 00:04:22.250
Sure, of course.

00:04:22.250 --> 00:04:25.560
What was that movie with the guy who was the great scam artist?

00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:25.880
who

00:04:26.463 --> 00:04:37.584
uh, oh, uh, catch me if you can catch me if you can, right, oh, I got all kinds of history about that, because that building, all wing building, that the jet blue hangar is behind I worked out of that building when I first got hired.

00:04:37.584 --> 00:04:38.204
Oh wow.

00:04:38.204 --> 00:04:44.267
So I got to fly some of the jurassic jets we call them, you know the 727s and the DC nines and stuff.

00:04:44.267 --> 00:04:52.422
So so I did that for a while.

00:04:52.422 --> 00:04:55.348
So I have like 28 years being an airline pilot and 38 years, pretty much flying airplanes Very cool it's.

00:04:55.367 --> 00:05:02.071
It leads into my my personal life too, because we do like dog rescues in our airplane and things like that.

00:05:02.071 --> 00:05:03.072
It's just part of our life.

00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:05.206
Hey, ken, so good to meet you.

00:05:05.206 --> 00:05:06.285
This is Larry Shea.

00:05:06.285 --> 00:05:09.829
I get the fun part bringing you back to the beginning and the dream.

00:05:09.829 --> 00:05:10.812
Let's dig into it.

00:05:10.812 --> 00:05:19.208
Do you remember the first time you were in a plane and did that oh God, absolutely Did that become the dream Like at that moment you're like this is the best thing ever.

00:05:25.899 --> 00:05:27.185
This is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life.

00:05:27.185 --> 00:05:29.375
So my dad was a pilot but he had been out of actually flying airplanes for many years before I was born.

00:05:29.375 --> 00:05:41.668
He has a very unique story where he came over from Europe and went back and came back and so he was out of flying when I was born and he was in the travel business but for some reason and he didn't talk about it that much.

00:05:41.668 --> 00:05:43.302
We would always talk about it once in a while.

00:05:43.302 --> 00:05:46.660
But at about eight years old I just always loved airplanes.

00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:55.610
You know, if he had to go to the airport to drop off tickets or something, I'd always want to go Just smell the jet fuel and look at the airplanes at Kennedy and LaGuardia.

00:05:55.610 --> 00:05:58.589
I always liked Kennedy better because I had the bigger airplanes and the foreign carriers.

00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:16.190
He just always wanted to do it and then when he saw that I was getting this interest, then I was fortunate, you know, supported me and I started flying like as soon as I was able.

00:06:16.190 --> 00:06:17.776
Yeah, I think at 16, I probably took my first flying lesson.

00:06:17.776 --> 00:06:18.257
I soloed at 17.

00:06:18.257 --> 00:06:18.918
It's just always been my dream.

00:06:18.918 --> 00:06:21.245
Yeah, fortunate enough to live my dream for sure.

00:06:22.045 --> 00:06:23.168
So what was that first plan?

00:06:23.168 --> 00:06:25.314
And, by the way, this is a Tushar speaking there, ken.

00:06:25.314 --> 00:06:26.415
What was that first plan?

00:06:26.415 --> 00:06:28.781
And, by the way, this is a two shots being there, ken.

00:06:28.781 --> 00:06:30.303
What was that first plan that you ever got your hands on?

00:06:30.303 --> 00:06:31.867
that you were able to begin your flying lessons in.

00:06:31.887 --> 00:06:41.841
So yeah, the first time I ever was in a small plane it was years, I was probably only 12 or so my uncle actually took us up in a plane for like a discovery flight.

00:06:41.841 --> 00:06:50.283
They just put us all in a plane and we flew around and at that point already I was very much into airplanes and I was running a flight simulator on the old Apple IIe computer.

00:06:50.283 --> 00:06:59.920
You know, every five seconds it would kind of turn a little bit, you know, and had been studying the books from my dad's old books and the new books and learning about everything.

00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:04.245
So the pilot was like, oh my God, you know about all these things already and I'm like oh yeah, you know this is what I want to do.

00:07:05.365 --> 00:07:12.571
But the first real, like when I first started taking flying lessons was, you know, right at about 17 when I started actually taking lessons.

00:07:12.571 --> 00:07:15.112
And that airplane I'll never forget it.

00:07:15.112 --> 00:07:18.636
It's a Cherokee 140, a Piper Cherokee 140.

00:07:18.636 --> 00:07:20.918
And I can still remember what it looks like.

00:07:20.918 --> 00:07:25.225
I remember the end number on it, it was 7597, Romeo.

00:07:25.245 --> 00:07:25.747
I even tried to find it.

00:07:25.766 --> 00:07:28.512
Oh wow there are people who have, you know, found the airplane.

00:07:28.512 --> 00:07:34.273
They sold it and actually bought it, and I was thinking about doing that or something like that, but it's gone.

00:07:34.273 --> 00:07:34.862
It's you know.

00:07:34.862 --> 00:07:37.348
I don't know what happened to it, but it's no longer registered.

00:07:37.369 --> 00:07:39.120
So All right.

00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:45.673
So I can only imagine that, obviously, when you're taking lessons at 16, you don't even have your driver's license yet Correct.

00:07:45.673 --> 00:08:00.571
So what was it like, or what was that feeling like, when you know you're going to school, you're growing up and you're telling your friends, yeah, I'm going to go up and solo on a plane, and they're looking at you cross-eyed like you can't even drive a car, but people are putting you behind the wheel of a plane.

00:08:00.771 --> 00:08:01.754
That was, you know, unique.

00:08:01.754 --> 00:08:08.418
I grew up in New York city, right, so you couldn't even drive till you were, I think you couldn't get your license till you were 19.

00:08:08.418 --> 00:08:08.779
And you didn't.

00:08:08.779 --> 00:08:11.406
You didn't start driving at like 15 or 16.

00:08:11.406 --> 00:08:15.442
Even, I think, at 18, I could do it, cause I went to, like I did it, in high school, you know.

00:08:15.442 --> 00:08:19.065
So I did driver's ed so I could get it to license at 18.

00:08:19.065 --> 00:08:26.016
But, um, but yeah, when I first started flying, my brother or my dad would drive me out to Long Island.

00:08:26.016 --> 00:08:27.064
I get an airplane.

00:08:27.064 --> 00:08:35.940
You know, once I had a few hours and it had soloed and was flying by myself, I'd fly the airplane myself over to Connecticut and back, you know, at 17.

00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:38.408
And I, and then they'd have to wait because I couldn't drive the car.

00:08:38.990 --> 00:08:39.681
All right, I also.

00:08:39.681 --> 00:08:44.667
I've also got to ask you did you ever give flying lessons when you were still not allowed to drive at that point?

00:08:44.667 --> 00:08:48.091
No, no, no, no, because I have an odd story.

00:08:48.091 --> 00:08:52.520
On my 45th birthday I went to get flying lessons for the first time.

00:08:52.520 --> 00:08:55.691
I said I'm going to try, try something never tried before, want to fly a plane.

00:08:55.691 --> 00:09:03.947
We flew a cessna, but the kid and a mean kid in a very literal sense did not have his driver's license and is teaching me how to fly a plane.

00:09:03.947 --> 00:09:08.883
I want to know if this is like, if I am unique, or if this is kind of across the industry and if it is.

00:09:08.883 --> 00:09:10.006
That's frightening.

00:09:10.006 --> 00:09:12.125
No, you have to be.

00:09:12.907 --> 00:09:14.390
It would take longer to get your CFI.

00:09:14.390 --> 00:09:16.299
The CFI, the certified flight instructor certificate.

00:09:16.299 --> 00:09:16.960
It's like one of the.

00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:18.860
It's one of the hardest ones to get.

00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:20.201
You know it's way down the road.

00:09:20.201 --> 00:09:22.764
You have a bunch of time before you become a CFI.

00:09:22.764 --> 00:09:24.565
So I doubt he was that young.

00:09:24.565 --> 00:09:25.325
I don't know how old.

00:09:25.325 --> 00:09:28.226
He might not have driver's license and could have been, you know, whatever age.

00:09:28.567 --> 00:09:33.889
Well, that's even, that's even worse to say if he was of age to get a license and had it suspended, but he's flying around.

00:09:34.009 --> 00:09:35.091
That's worse.

00:09:35.091 --> 00:09:36.951
I want to get into the process.

00:09:36.951 --> 00:09:42.254
I want to get into the the process of of you know what it takes to get your license Just before we do that.

00:09:42.254 --> 00:09:44.716
Do you ever have any trouble with heights in general?

00:09:44.716 --> 00:09:51.902
Because, like, I'm afraid of heights when I'm in an airplane I'm like, oh boy, I'm like the white knuckler.

00:09:51.942 --> 00:09:52.423
Yeah, yeah.

00:09:52.423 --> 00:09:54.405
So it's not about heights.

00:09:54.405 --> 00:09:55.967
I don't like heights either.

00:09:55.967 --> 00:09:58.972
Like you know, pilots and ladders are not a good mix.

00:09:58.972 --> 00:10:00.634
Okay, because we tend to fall off.

00:10:01.299 --> 00:10:01.360
God.

00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:09.841
It's just ironic how many stories you hear about I was trimming my trees or I was cleaning out my gutters and you know I'm in the guys off for six weeks or six months and all he breaks fixes his back.

00:10:09.841 --> 00:10:14.049
But um, I don't like heights either.

00:10:14.049 --> 00:10:18.062
If I'm, I did a lot of sailboat racing and they would send me up the mast.

00:10:18.062 --> 00:10:23.282
Okay, when you're on the mast of the sailboat and it's tipping on a 44 foot boat, you can imagine how high the mass is.

00:10:23.282 --> 00:10:26.666
That thing is swaying back and forth Even though I'm strapped in.

00:10:26.666 --> 00:10:28.989
I did not like that as far as height.

00:10:28.989 --> 00:10:32.331
So when you're flying, for some reason, it's just, it's not the same.

00:10:32.331 --> 00:10:39.864
It may be for other people, but that's not like if I'm standing on the edge of a building I'd be like oh God you know.

00:10:39.864 --> 00:10:43.568
But in the plane I, and I think that's the same for a lot of people, but I'm not sure.

00:10:43.568 --> 00:10:47.455
I'm sure some other people have acrophobia in every phase.

00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:59.109
I want to get to the journey, but before we do that, I have to ask this question when you talk about climbing up a mast, so were you always like the adventurous kid?

00:10:59.109 --> 00:11:02.451
You're taking flying lessons, you're on a boat, you're climbing a mast.

00:11:02.451 --> 00:11:03.491
Who were you as a kid?

00:11:03.491 --> 00:11:05.494
Were you always doing stuff like that?

00:11:05.994 --> 00:11:14.291
It's funny, I guess inside I always was and I guess to me flying is just what all I've ever known and all I've ever done, so to me to do it.

00:11:14.291 --> 00:11:16.120
It wasn't like he asked earlier about.

00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.784
You know what did you tell your friends in high school when you're going?

00:11:18.784 --> 00:11:22.389
Well, my friends just knew I kind of did it and I didn't really talk it up much.

00:11:22.389 --> 00:11:24.431
You know, the parents like don't brag about it.

00:11:24.431 --> 00:11:25.231
You know what I mean, don't?

00:11:25.692 --> 00:11:27.254
So, I just that's just what I did.

00:11:27.254 --> 00:11:28.679
Everybody I knew I kind of did it.

00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.969
So I guess that in itself is very adventurous to me.

00:11:31.969 --> 00:11:33.412
It wasn't that's all I wanted to do.

00:11:33.412 --> 00:11:36.524
It's all I was going to do and it didn't seem adventurous.

00:11:36.524 --> 00:11:48.985
But, and as I got older, then I started doing these other crazy things, like these long distance races and working on sailboats and crossing the Gulf and everything in a 40 foot boat and, you know, being sent up to Vasquez.

00:11:48.985 --> 00:11:49.907
I was the light guy.

00:11:49.907 --> 00:11:54.604
They didn't want to crank the heavy guy, the BG.

00:11:54.604 --> 00:11:57.010
They call him the big guy, you know, and anyone crank him up?

00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:00.648
So let's, let's focus the journey a little bit.

00:12:00.648 --> 00:12:02.692
You're young, you're you're flying.

00:12:02.692 --> 00:12:09.182
A little bit You're young, you're flying.

00:12:09.182 --> 00:12:13.836
Was the vision at the age of 16 or 17 to learn how to fly, or was it to become a pilot and for that to be your career, going forward?

00:12:14.357 --> 00:12:15.400
It was always to be a pilot.

00:12:15.400 --> 00:12:20.232
Okay, just always wanted to be a pilot, you know, and specifically an airline pilot.

00:12:20.232 --> 00:12:21.582
Military would always be fun.

00:12:21.582 --> 00:12:31.365
Hey, you could do a military career, fly, you know a fighter jet, you know who didn't want to do that as a?

00:12:31.365 --> 00:12:33.293
And then go on to a military career, just as my career progressed.

00:12:33.293 --> 00:12:33.674
The timing of it.

00:12:33.674 --> 00:12:34.236
There were no flying slots.

00:12:34.236 --> 00:12:35.922
After Vietnam, the government downsized things.

00:12:35.922 --> 00:12:42.865
There were very few flying spots, so a military career in aviation wasn't as available, if that makes sense.

00:12:43.447 --> 00:12:45.030
What kind of schooling does that require?

00:12:45.030 --> 00:12:49.212
In high school are you able to kind of build that skill set?

00:12:49.212 --> 00:12:52.162
Obviously you're doing your own private lessons at that point.

00:12:52.162 --> 00:13:00.389
But like, if you're going to get a degree in I guess in aviation, if that's what you did, or avionics for that sense, what does that schooling look like?

00:13:01.191 --> 00:13:03.946
Back when I was going to go through and get hired.

00:13:03.946 --> 00:13:11.653
By the time I would be of age and have the experience to get hired, you needed a four-year degree and it could be in anything.

00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:13.164
It didn't have to be in aviation.

00:13:13.164 --> 00:13:16.827
That was going to be our next question, so you could have a degree in English and still become a pilot.

00:13:16.908 --> 00:13:19.659
Correct, but you had to have some four-year degree.

00:13:19.659 --> 00:13:22.585
Now that's even changed because of supply and demand.

00:13:22.585 --> 00:13:34.940
But the path I decided to take because I knew it was going to be a very competitive environment by the time I would be ready and I was always just interested in aeronautics, aviation itself.

00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:43.168
I went to Henry Riddle Aeronautical University, which is, you know, they call it the Harvard of the skies or whatever, but that was like the school to go to.

00:13:43.168 --> 00:13:58.567
There's several other ones Purdue has an excellent aviation program, among others but that was one of the schools to go to if you wanted to be an airline pilot and that would give you the advantage that when you do go to get hired you can show hey, listen, my whole life has been dedicated to this.

00:13:58.567 --> 00:14:00.083
So if it's you.

00:14:00.163 --> 00:14:01.668
Compared to someone else, they're going to go well.

00:14:01.668 --> 00:14:05.509
This guy's dedicated his whole life and education to this specific goal.

00:14:05.509 --> 00:14:06.852
Hopefully, we would rather hire him.

00:14:07.495 --> 00:14:11.049
So that's the schooling aspect to the four-year degree part of it.

00:14:11.049 --> 00:14:11.692
I didn't know that.

00:14:11.692 --> 00:14:12.597
That's fascinating.

00:14:12.597 --> 00:14:14.184
And again, you said supply and demand.

00:14:14.184 --> 00:14:15.350
It doesn't really happen today.

00:14:15.350 --> 00:14:19.243
What is the actual process, though, to get the pilot's license?

00:14:19.243 --> 00:14:24.030
Is it a certain amount of hours, obviously, taking off and landing, or critical?

00:14:24.030 --> 00:14:25.453
What is the process like?

00:14:25.453 --> 00:14:26.662
Lead us through that a little bit.

00:14:27.764 --> 00:14:30.051
There are several levels of licenses that you can get.

00:14:30.051 --> 00:14:31.985
There's like the lowest one.

00:14:31.985 --> 00:14:40.530
Right now they have what they call like a sport pilot license, but really if you're going to go into flying as a career or even private, they call it.

00:14:40.530 --> 00:14:50.815
The first level of certificate is called a private pilot certificate and that has its own specific value of flight hours you're required to have at a minimum.

00:14:50.815 --> 00:14:56.299
Most people take a little bit more because if you fly every day you can do it maybe in the minimum.

00:14:56.419 --> 00:15:02.346
If you fly once a week, you do lose some skills over the week that you haven't done it or the timing you have to do it.

00:15:02.346 --> 00:15:14.427
So, but basically there's a certain amount of time of flying the airplane, doing work in the pattern take off, some landings and stalls and steep turns and all these other maneuvers you have to be proficient at.

00:15:14.427 --> 00:15:16.847
And then you have to do what they call cross countries.

00:15:16.847 --> 00:15:25.192
So you actually have to go and fly to different airports that are a certain distance away all by yourself to prove that you can do it.

00:15:25.192 --> 00:15:39.712
And you do several of those, of course at different distances, and then you know, you get back with your instructor, you practice up your maneuvers and then you can take your checkride, but there's a specific minimum numbers hours, and that's changed a little bit too.

00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:56.716
And if you go through a program though, like Emory Riddle or some of these other flight schools, they have very specific programs where you're going to start at the private pilot level, let's say, and progress all the way through up to, like, your certified flight instructor rating.

00:15:56.716 --> 00:16:10.783
Since it's a very, very structured school, they have some waivers that you can actually have a little bit less flight time Right, it's very structured, as opposed to just going down to Joe's flight school on the corner and taking lessons from that kind of person.

00:16:10.783 --> 00:16:12.592
So there are several levels.

00:16:12.592 --> 00:16:27.823
You have to first get your private pilot and then instrument rating, and then a commercial pilot, and then eventually, probably, flight instructor and eventually, once you get your 1500 hours and flight journaling, you have to be what they call an ATP or an airline transport pilot.

00:16:28.509 --> 00:16:33.101
OK, so set the levels aside for a second and answer this question for me True or false?

00:16:33.101 --> 00:16:39.739
Ultimately, flying a plane isn't much harder than driving a car once you've had all that proper training.

00:16:39.739 --> 00:16:41.701
Correct, really.

00:16:42.923 --> 00:16:43.966
Yeah, shocking answer.

00:16:43.966 --> 00:16:44.594
Flying is not.

00:16:44.594 --> 00:16:47.269
You know, it's not rocket science, it's a skill?

00:16:47.309 --> 00:16:47.894
Well, it sort of is, isn't it?

00:16:47.913 --> 00:16:48.277
Yeah, Flying is not.

00:16:48.277 --> 00:16:48.961
You know, it's not rocket science.

00:16:48.961 --> 00:16:49.244
It's a skill.

00:16:49.244 --> 00:16:49.807
Well, it sort of is, isn't it?

00:16:49.807 --> 00:16:52.994
Yeah, well, it seems like it when you add all that stuff in.

00:16:53.053 --> 00:16:56.020
You know I also did mention in all of these too, there's lots of ground school.

00:16:56.020 --> 00:17:07.098
With all of this too, the ground school books are enormous and there's lots involved with that, and typically you try to get your written tests done before the practical test or you have to before you take the practical test to get your license.

00:17:07.098 --> 00:17:12.983
But there's a lot to it and depending on what level you're in, you don't have to learn it at all those levels.

00:17:12.983 --> 00:17:19.808
Flying itself isn't difficult, it's just the consequences for mistakes are much greater.

00:17:19.808 --> 00:17:21.513
Yes, of course the takeoff and the landing.

00:17:21.615 --> 00:17:22.518
those are the hard parts.

00:17:22.690 --> 00:17:30.702
The staying in the air not that hard yeah everybody thinks that landing is the hardest or whatever it can be.

00:17:30.702 --> 00:17:35.278
It just makes it so challenging because it's different every time.

00:17:35.278 --> 00:17:39.710
You can't just go okay, do this, hold this for three seconds, pull back this much, hold this for three seconds.

00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:42.234
And it works, because the atmosphere is constantly changing.

00:17:42.234 --> 00:17:44.136
It's never exactly the same.

00:17:44.136 --> 00:17:56.934
I tell people go, take your car, put two cones out and parallel park it 20 times and be one inch from the curb, or three inches from the curb, or six inches, and do that 20 times and see how much times you get exactly right.

00:17:56.934 --> 00:18:00.383
And then add, you know, ice or something.

00:18:02.191 --> 00:18:04.795
Can you tell us about the first time you landed an airplane?

00:18:04.795 --> 00:18:07.619
How old were you and what were those emotions?

00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:15.258
Oh man, well, I was 17 years old and you kind of know that solo is coming.

00:18:15.258 --> 00:18:18.644
You know it's the instructors preparing you for it.

00:18:18.644 --> 00:18:28.260
We took off out of Farmingdale that's where I was doing my lessons from and flew over to Bridgeport, connecticut, and I did like two landings and he said, pull over there on that ramp.

00:18:28.260 --> 00:18:35.321
And he just got out and I was like oh, wow.

00:18:35.863 --> 00:18:37.405
Yeah, I remember vividly.

00:18:37.405 --> 00:18:40.231
I remember what I was wearing, I remember the runway.

00:18:40.231 --> 00:18:51.032
I remember all of it because it's just, it's an amazing feeling and accomplishment and the fear goes away because when you're in there in the cockpit it's like home.

00:18:51.032 --> 00:18:52.801
You're used to the sounds and everything.

00:18:52.801 --> 00:19:00.355
The funny thing everybody tells about their first solo is the instructor gets out and says hey, just so you know, you're going to be in this airplane alone for the first time.

00:19:00.355 --> 00:19:03.770
My 180 pounds is not going to be in it.

00:19:03.770 --> 00:19:08.420
So on takeoff it's going to climb much better than you're used to, you know, and stuff like that.

00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:10.864
Right, and you're like, oh geez, give me something else to think about.

00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:15.039
After you got out of your aviation school, what was that first move for you?

00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:16.202
Career wise after that.

00:19:16.650 --> 00:19:20.609
So it was a little different for me than in some maybe.

00:19:20.609 --> 00:19:26.103
I graduated with my four year degree and it was a terrible time.

00:19:26.329 --> 00:19:26.769
Where were you?

00:19:26.769 --> 00:19:27.991
What was your rank in your class?

00:19:28.172 --> 00:19:31.556
You don't really know, honestly, you know, how that all works.

00:19:31.736 --> 00:19:32.876
I mean famously.

00:19:32.876 --> 00:19:38.163
The late Senator John McCain was, I think, last in his class at the Naval Academy.

00:19:38.163 --> 00:19:40.665
It turned out it was a terrific flyer as well.

00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:45.872
Absolutely.

00:19:45.872 --> 00:19:49.708
Yeah, you know, and it's like they said we're going to call the guy who graduates last from medical school doctor.

00:19:49.708 --> 00:19:53.172
Right, I like that, but just my luck.

00:19:53.172 --> 00:19:53.673
It was a terrible time.

00:19:53.673 --> 00:19:57.221
The industry they had hundreds of pilots, if not thousands of pilots on furlough.

00:19:57.221 --> 00:19:58.952
The economy was bad.

00:19:58.952 --> 00:20:00.116
Nobody was hiring.

00:20:00.116 --> 00:20:02.967
The supply and demand part of it was terrible.

00:20:02.967 --> 00:20:14.900
There were pilots all over the place and you couldn't even really find like flight instructor jobs or which now are a dime, a dozen or anything, I mean it was just like very little flying, so it was very discouraging.

00:20:15.530 --> 00:20:31.834
I was fortunate I was using my computer geekery skills and I was working at the university in their airway science simulation laboratory, working on flight simulators and I had gotten put in charge of a project to run their air traffic control training simulator.

00:20:32.454 --> 00:20:35.290
And when I went to leave, they're like you can't leave, you run this whole thing.

00:20:35.290 --> 00:20:39.180
And I was like, well, no, I'm going to go.

00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:41.010
I got to go find a flying job, I'm a pilot.

00:20:41.010 --> 00:20:44.097
And they were like no, you can't go.

00:20:44.097 --> 00:20:46.383
And they actually offered me a free master's degree.

00:20:46.383 --> 00:20:49.431
Oh wow, to stay.

00:20:49.431 --> 00:20:51.699
So I became a graduate research assistant for them and they actually offered me a free master's degree to stay.

00:20:51.719 --> 00:20:56.575
So I became a graduate research assistant for them and I had some pretty good mentors then because they grabbed me by the throat and said don't throw this away.

00:20:56.575 --> 00:20:58.298
You'll fly on the side.

00:20:58.298 --> 00:20:59.481
You continue flying.

00:20:59.481 --> 00:21:05.651
You know a lot of people around here will get you know, we'll get you some flight instructor hours, but don't throw this away.

00:21:05.651 --> 00:21:08.115
And I'm glad I didn't, because it really helped me in my career.

00:21:08.115 --> 00:21:13.063
So I stayed and did a master's degree about a year and a half from there.

00:21:13.063 --> 00:21:15.998
So got that done and then things started looking a little bit better.

00:21:15.998 --> 00:21:20.857
So my first job was basically flight instructing, which is pretty much typical.

00:21:20.857 --> 00:21:35.256
I got a flight instructor job in Orlando and I was also doing traffic reports, so I was flying with radio personalities with us in the airplane and we were transmitting live from the airplane and that was a whole hoot.

00:21:35.256 --> 00:21:36.834
I've got all kinds of stories about that.

00:21:37.856 --> 00:21:38.538
What was the station?

00:21:38.538 --> 00:21:38.900
It was a TV.

00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:44.875
It was like four or five stations in Orlando and it was funny, they still had four or five stations.

00:21:44.875 --> 00:21:45.898
Yeah right, exactly.

00:21:46.439 --> 00:21:57.532
And it was weird because you know know I was never into the entertainment industry or whatever, but I, you know I'd go check check out the plane, have to get the copy for them to read, all the you know off the fax machine of all their you know advertisers.

00:21:57.532 --> 00:22:08.857
I had to read and the guys, it was either one reporter or two reporters, two airplanes to go up at the same time, sky one and sky two, and they were the traffic twins on one station and on the other station.

00:22:08.857 --> 00:22:09.605
They each had their own personalities.

00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:09.751
They were the traffic twins on one station and on the other station.

00:22:09.751 --> 00:22:10.616
They each had their own personalities.

00:22:10.616 --> 00:22:11.538
They were different people.

00:22:11.538 --> 00:22:13.742
So it was just pretty unique.

00:22:13.742 --> 00:22:17.498
One guy was this, another this, and on that station they were the traffic twins.

00:22:17.498 --> 00:22:18.601
It was pretty interesting.

00:22:19.730 --> 00:22:25.222
So is this the first instance where somebody is actually paying you to fly an airplane?

00:22:26.250 --> 00:22:28.757
Yes, flight instructing and flying.

00:22:28.757 --> 00:22:31.513
The traffic reports my first real flying job.

00:22:31.773 --> 00:22:32.856
You talk about living the dream.

00:22:32.856 --> 00:22:34.682
That's the dream right there, right.

00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:36.895
And how old are you at this point?

00:22:36.895 --> 00:22:37.980
Probably 22.

00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:40.595
That's nice, right there, that's nice.

00:22:41.457 --> 00:22:44.403
Yeah, I mean I graduated in college at 21.

00:22:44.403 --> 00:22:49.241
So I was probably 22 or 23 because I started this right as I was finishing my master's degree.

00:22:49.930 --> 00:22:55.803
Okay, this is as good a place to ask this as any Favorite airplane to fly, and why?

00:22:56.930 --> 00:22:58.015
757, no doubt.

00:22:58.174 --> 00:22:58.758
Okay, why.

00:22:59.630 --> 00:22:59.769
Yeah.

00:23:00.111 --> 00:23:01.792
I flew it for TWA.

00:23:01.792 --> 00:23:06.577
It's just sexy Flew, amazing.

00:23:06.577 --> 00:23:11.324
It was before the over automated what I call jets that we have today.

00:23:11.324 --> 00:23:22.679
Uh, it still had like analog gauges, yet enough computers in it, like with a flight management system, you know the moving map and stuff like that, which was relatively new at the time.

00:23:22.679 --> 00:23:25.873
A great mixture of that and it was just incredibly powerful.

00:23:25.873 --> 00:23:32.982
You could go go in and out of just about any field, never have to worry about temperature, heat, weight, anything like that.

00:23:32.982 --> 00:23:35.412
It was just a perfect balance.

00:23:35.412 --> 00:23:37.721
It was a great great Boeing airplane.

00:23:37.741 --> 00:23:38.064
Very cool.

00:23:38.384 --> 00:23:42.817
So you talked about the different levels of license that you can get and so forth.

00:23:42.817 --> 00:23:47.053
How transferable is it from this plane to that plane?

00:23:47.053 --> 00:23:50.854
To that plane, I assume you have to be certified for a specific aircraft.

00:23:50.854 --> 00:23:55.202
How much does the knowledge transfer from one plane to another?

00:23:55.349 --> 00:24:03.738
essentially, Quite, honestly, a lot of the knowledge transfers you can, especially with smaller airplanes like I have a single engine airplane.

00:24:03.738 --> 00:24:05.951
If you have a twin engine airplane it's a little different.

00:24:05.951 --> 00:24:06.832
You have to have a different rating.

00:24:06.832 --> 00:24:07.894
Of course I have that rating.

00:24:07.894 --> 00:24:09.496
If you have a twin engine airplane it's a little different.

00:24:09.496 --> 00:24:10.837
You have to have a different rating.

00:24:10.837 --> 00:24:11.618
Of course I have that rating.

00:24:11.618 --> 00:24:12.901
And with small airplanes it's typically you can fly it.

00:24:12.901 --> 00:24:22.371
The biggest restrictions are what the insurance company allow you to do, right, but the regulation wise.

00:24:22.391 --> 00:24:26.578
In order to fly from like an Airbus, which I'm flying now, or go fly to 787, you need what they call a type rating.

00:24:26.578 --> 00:24:36.497
So if it weighs more than 12,500 pounds, which all of those weigh over that, you need what they call a type rating.

00:24:36.497 --> 00:24:43.451
So typically how that works is if I'm in an airline that has multiple different fleets of airplanes and I want to go fly the other airplane, I want to bid to fly in the bigger airplane or the smaller airplane or whatever.

00:24:43.451 --> 00:24:51.038
They just train you on it and you do it in their simulators and you get a type rating in that airplane and now you're qualified on that airplane.

00:24:51.038 --> 00:24:56.615
You can't switch Like I can't go fly, even if you were previously on that airplane.

00:24:56.615 --> 00:24:58.381
You can't just switch fleets.

00:24:58.381 --> 00:25:00.096
You're only certified on one fleet.

00:25:00.096 --> 00:25:01.234
They changed that years ago.

00:25:01.234 --> 00:25:14.558
There was a time where you could do multiple, but it's just gotten so complicated with all the electronics and computers and systems that that's just not possible anymore how real is the simulation experience?

00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:16.741
it is, it is.

00:25:16.741 --> 00:25:19.672
The fidelity is unbelievable.

00:25:19.672 --> 00:25:20.733
It's so accurate.

00:25:20.733 --> 00:25:24.102
As we're taxiing, I can feel the turtles.

00:25:24.102 --> 00:25:28.396
We call them, you know, you know, in the runway lights in the center line they'll have a a taxi.

00:25:28.416 --> 00:25:30.942
They're green and they look like a turtle, so we call them kill a turtle.

00:25:30.942 --> 00:25:31.784
Yeah, I'm killing turtles.

00:25:31.784 --> 00:25:35.641
As you go over the bump, bump, bump, you feel that as you're taxiing.

00:25:35.641 --> 00:25:43.242
If you're at the gate in the simulator and it's cold and windy, you feel the simulator actually moving with the wind.

00:25:43.242 --> 00:25:46.112
Oh, wow, you can see cars on the road.

00:25:46.112 --> 00:25:46.751
You can see cars on the road.

00:25:46.751 --> 00:25:48.393
You can see that they have headlights on.

00:25:48.393 --> 00:25:50.515
You can see everything.

00:25:50.515 --> 00:25:54.198
You know buildings have the names of whatever businesses are there.

00:25:54.218 --> 00:25:54.818
I mean, it's just.

00:25:54.818 --> 00:25:57.181
The fidelity is just, is incredible.

00:25:57.181 --> 00:26:00.042
And the motion also.

00:26:00.042 --> 00:26:15.861
When you get into the crazy stuff, when they make us do these recoveries from 65 degree banks and all that stuff, you have to basically turn the motion off because you'll either make yourself sick or damage the simulator because it can't give you Gs.

00:26:15.861 --> 00:26:34.761
But you swear you're accelerating or decelerating in that simulator and if you ever watch one from the outside, it's incredible how much they move to simulate the stopping, like when you land and you throw the reverse on and slam onto brakes and you're in your shoulder harnesses and the problem is it can't really give you that release of it again.

00:26:34.761 --> 00:26:36.392
Yeah, it seemed like that's.

00:26:36.392 --> 00:26:41.767
The visuals actually go dark and before they reposition you because it'll make you instantly sick.

00:26:42.407 --> 00:26:46.923
Wow, yeah, I'm imagining what is the captain kirk thing?

00:26:46.923 --> 00:27:15.932
They the kobayashi maru that he had so for those who do not follow star trek, as captain kirk was learning, they threw like these crazy crises at him that he had to solve in order to get approved, and and that's what I'm imagining with you as you're going through these different simulations are crazy scenarios getting thrown at you that you need to handle and get through in order to get certified and approved.

00:27:15.932 --> 00:27:17.224
There's nothing crazy.

00:27:17.788 --> 00:27:21.762
They don't want to negative train you either, right, you don't want to be up there cowboying it and stuff like that.

00:27:21.762 --> 00:27:25.970
We have very specific procedures for very specific incidences.

00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:29.441
So you do get a lot of failures, but that's the whole idea.

00:27:29.441 --> 00:27:32.167
And every time you go back to training.

00:27:32.167 --> 00:27:38.108
When I used to train, I was a check pilot for the airline and when I was a fleet captain I was actually training check pilots.

00:27:38.108 --> 00:27:44.252
So sometimes we would give those guys a little bit more than we would give someone else just to build confidence.

00:27:44.252 --> 00:27:51.503
And I mean you can do all kinds of stuff failing landing gear and engines falling off and but we do get quite a bit.

00:27:51.503 --> 00:27:58.449
I just went through my recurrent training and you get engine fires and hydraulic failures and all kinds of things like that, because that's what we need to deal with.

00:27:58.449 --> 00:28:00.701
That's really why we're there, right?

00:28:00.982 --> 00:28:01.503
oh, yeah, yeah.

00:28:01.503 --> 00:28:03.107
So let's talk a little bit now.

00:28:03.107 --> 00:28:04.772
Let's get back on the career path a little bit.

00:28:04.772 --> 00:28:14.095
So you've been flying around, you've been dabbing into, you know, you're a local celebrity, flying TV and radio personalities around.

00:28:14.095 --> 00:28:16.909
What would you say is your first real job from that?

00:28:16.909 --> 00:28:21.311
I mean, obviously that's a real gig, but I'm saying, like your first, let's say, real job after that?

00:28:21.471 --> 00:28:22.573
When you get your flight time right.

00:28:22.573 --> 00:28:23.553
Oh, you get my flight time.

00:28:23.553 --> 00:28:31.740
You have to have so many hours Nowadays it's like 1,500 hours to get on with the airlines and you need a lot of what they call multi-time, right, so two engine time, they want that.

00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:34.644
So you need 1,500 hours basically to get hired an airline.

00:28:34.644 --> 00:28:40.130
There are some waivers if you went to one of those Amity Riddle schools in a specific and that makes sense.

00:28:40.130 --> 00:28:42.132
Or sometimes the military guys.

00:28:42.132 --> 00:28:46.777
They get to get a break because they don't get to fly as much, but they're also in a very structured program.

00:28:46.777 --> 00:28:59.895
It's so much about safety and threat and error management and systems and meteorology and everything else that goes along with it that the flying is actually a smaller portion of the full education in aviation?

00:29:00.642 --> 00:29:01.886
Yeah, I mean that portion.

00:29:01.886 --> 00:29:05.887
But, like I said, your first big gig after that after yeah.

00:29:06.068 --> 00:29:07.010
First big gig.

00:29:07.010 --> 00:29:19.546
Yeah, this business is very small and I had a friend who had a friend who was a retired former TWA pilot who had run a corporate flight department out in San Jose, california.

00:29:19.546 --> 00:29:25.981
So I'm in Orlando and it was hey, you know, if you come out here, I can get you some time.

00:29:25.981 --> 00:29:43.887
And they had a Cheyenne 3, which is a turboprop, awesome airplane, and they also flew another twin and they're going to start up like a charter operation and they need a first officer and with my qualifications I would actually qualify to be the first officer on that airplane for them and said hey, we're going to start this operation up If you get out here.

00:29:43.887 --> 00:29:55.209
There's no guarantee of a job or how much money you're going to make, but I can get you to twin time and the multi-time and some turbine time also, because we also fly part 91 a lot and we'll get you trained.

00:29:55.209 --> 00:29:57.519
And I was like holy cow I jumped in the car.

00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.821
You all moved cross country.

00:30:00.041 --> 00:30:01.423
You didn't hop on a plane.

00:30:01.423 --> 00:30:03.684
Yeah right, Exactly.

00:30:03.704 --> 00:30:07.468
Yeah, I had no clue where I was going.

00:30:07.468 --> 00:30:08.788
I didn't know what exit to get off.

00:30:08.788 --> 00:30:11.670
When I was there it was before Google Maps and all that stuff.

00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:13.372
It turned out to be great.

00:30:13.372 --> 00:30:15.032
It started real slow.

00:30:15.032 --> 00:30:34.989
I got another flight instructor job out there, also to supplement income, and I started doing that and that started to work out pretty well and then, as I was doing well for those guys again, it's a small business you know other guys out there in the San Jose area a lot of little charters and stuff wanted pilots that they could train.

00:30:34.989 --> 00:30:40.532
And I got phone calls from him going hey, you know, if you've got time, can you come and fly with me?

00:30:40.532 --> 00:30:48.288
And I flew with a bunch of other guys and turboprops and stuff like that to build all my flight time so I could get hired with TWA.

00:30:48.690 --> 00:30:50.693
Let's talk about moving to TWA.

00:30:50.693 --> 00:30:53.307
How do you get that gig specifically?

00:30:53.307 --> 00:30:56.157
And then, how big of a learning curve is it?

00:30:56.157 --> 00:31:02.253
How different is it to work for a larger airline compared to a smaller company?

00:31:02.253 --> 00:31:05.061
That's a charter or a flight school or something of that nature.

00:31:05.061 --> 00:31:06.385
What was the learning curve?

00:31:06.385 --> 00:31:07.670
How different was it?

00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:11.046
Yeah, I mean it was tectonically different.

00:31:11.046 --> 00:31:20.381
When they hire pilots, it's a seniority-based system and when they hire you, they still had the 727 and the L-1011 and the 747, which all had flight engineers.

00:31:20.381 --> 00:31:47.150
I don't know if you guys remember that was a third pilot up there and you're a pilot and you're hired as a pilot, but you don't have the seniority to hold that yet, so you'd be a flight engineer, and this is where, like my education, was just made the right decision because, even though I didn't have the amount of flight time that their average pilot that they were hiring had, because the hiring floodgates had opened, I got hired in February of 96.

00:31:47.431 --> 00:31:53.151
The hiring floodgates all of a sudden opened again in mid to late 95.

00:31:53.151 --> 00:31:58.442
So in 96, they still had a lot of pilots that they could hire that had a lot of experience.

00:31:58.442 --> 00:32:05.328
I met their minimum requirements but I wasn't what you would call normally would be competitive, just with flight time.

00:32:05.328 --> 00:32:15.990
But my background was unique and different and because I had like a bunch of this turbine time now of my time because I was flying with this guy and my educational background.

00:32:15.990 --> 00:32:22.847
So when I was sitting in the interview the first question she asked me is like you know, you've got, you know, a master's degree.

00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:24.162
It wasn't common to have an aeronautics master's degree.

00:32:24.162 --> 00:32:24.172
You know, you've got you know a master's degree.

00:32:24.172 --> 00:32:25.851
It wasn't common to have an aeronautics master's degree.

00:32:25.851 --> 00:32:36.082
You know, back then and especially my young age she was like 22 or 24, whatever I was and you've got this kind of flight time which is lower than what we normally see when you meet our minimums.

00:32:36.082 --> 00:32:38.003
But you know, you're sitting here because you're different.

00:32:38.003 --> 00:32:40.926
Tell me about that, because in my resume and stuff.

00:32:40.926 --> 00:32:42.288
I showed how I had gotten this.

00:32:42.288 --> 00:32:47.334
You know what worked on this, these projects so that helped me get get hired.

00:32:47.334 --> 00:32:48.434
So I was very different.

00:32:48.434 --> 00:32:50.402
I also was working on the flight simulator.

00:32:50.402 --> 00:32:58.759
They actually gave me my flight test in and I was showing the guy giving me my flight test for my interview how to work oh, that's great I had what they call dynamic control loading.

00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:01.486
That would like feel like you're flying, and he couldn't get it working.

00:33:01.486 --> 00:33:02.930
I'm like like oh, here, we're going here.

00:33:02.930 --> 00:33:04.173
And he's like how do you know that?

00:33:04.173 --> 00:33:05.404
I said I helped build that.

00:33:06.682 --> 00:33:07.505
And he's like okay, then.

00:33:09.661 --> 00:33:15.028
And also the guy I was flying for was a former TVA pilot, so I knew all their call outs, all their procedures.

00:33:15.028 --> 00:33:17.046
So it you know it went well.

00:33:17.046 --> 00:33:22.289
And then getting hired with that was very different because I had never been a flight engineer before.

00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:30.352
But again, going through every riddle, I had taken a class on being a flight engineer in the 727.

00:33:30.352 --> 00:33:48.491
The education choice was the right choice, so it was not that big of a deal, but it was huge and a big advantage because, as opposed to sitting in a pilot seat and all of a sudden going eight miles a minute, you know you got to spend a little bit of time in the engineer seat and getting used to the airline environment and how it worked.

00:33:48.491 --> 00:33:51.470
So it made it a lot easier when I transitioned to first officer.

00:33:52.800 --> 00:33:54.244
And what does that mean?

00:33:54.244 --> 00:33:57.291
You're in the flight engineer seat, I'm thinking about the steps.

00:33:57.291 --> 00:34:01.768
So you're a flight engineer, then you're a co-pilot, I imagine, and then you're the pilot.

00:34:01.768 --> 00:34:05.855
So describe the roles in a cockpit.

00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:08.050
The flight engineer basically ran all the systems.

00:34:08.050 --> 00:34:10.320
So there were no real computers running everything.

00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:16.021
You were responsible for balancing the fuel and all the electricity and it was quite complicated.

00:34:16.021 --> 00:34:20.793
You had three or four generators, you had six, eight, 10 fuel tanks.

00:34:20.793 --> 00:34:22.563
You had to pump the fuel back and forth.

00:34:22.563 --> 00:34:24.327
I mean it was very, very complicated.

00:34:24.327 --> 00:34:28.740
That's why you needed a whole separate person just to manage the systems of the airplane.

00:34:29.041 --> 00:34:36.806
Even back in the DC-9 days, when they got rid of flight engineers, a lot of that is automated, even though it's not really computerized.

00:34:36.806 --> 00:34:41.882
It was relays and stuff like that that would take care of a lot of those systems.

00:34:41.882 --> 00:34:45.893
So nowadays you have the pilot flying and the pilot monitoring.

00:34:45.893 --> 00:34:57.679
You've got the captain, who's ultimately in charge, and then the first officer, who's second in command, and basically we swap roles, like when we I mean the captain's always the captain, but we swap flying roles.

00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:11.472
So on one leg I'll be the pilot flying and he's the pilot monitoring, and on the next leg we switch and they do the landing, unless it's really bad weather, an inexperienced first officer or certain weather conditions where they require the captain to land.

00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:13.021
All right.

00:35:13.021 --> 00:35:24.130
So I want to talk a little bit about the culture aspect of, because I picture you like when you're doing essentially like a flight, school or charter you essentially are showing up in like jeans and a bowling shirt.

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:29.625
That's right, but obviously, when you're working in a corporate environment, the culture has to be considerably different.

00:35:29.625 --> 00:35:32.074
The instrumentation, as you mentioned, is different.

00:35:32.074 --> 00:35:39.141
So what's that like when you're entering that type of a more structured environment, like a TWA, JetBlue, etc.

00:35:39.742 --> 00:35:45.273
It's actually easier because everything is so spilled out exactly how you do everything.

00:35:45.273 --> 00:35:52.494
The manuals are large, the procedures are detailed and there's a procedure for everything.

00:35:52.494 --> 00:36:00.385
So it's almost easier than when you're with a flight department that doesn't have quite the rigid standards of the airline.

00:36:00.385 --> 00:36:05.054
Far Part 121, we call it, that's the regulations that are underneath standards.

00:36:05.054 --> 00:36:15.273
So it doesn't mean that they're unsafe or anything, it's just you could be flying with different guys that maybe do things a little bit different here, or checklist use, stuff like that.

00:36:15.273 --> 00:36:18.568
When you fly for the airline, everything is specific to that airline.

00:36:18.568 --> 00:36:26.405
It's actually easier because you know exactly what to study, exactly what's expected of you and exactly what the other guy is going to do.

00:36:27.307 --> 00:36:30.164
And when you say you have a checklist, I mean, do you have a literal clipboard?

00:36:30.164 --> 00:36:31.206
You got to mark stuff off

00:36:31.407 --> 00:36:31.909
Absolutely.

00:36:31.909 --> 00:36:34.565
Yeah, so you don't mark stuff up, but it's a card, it's a checklist.

00:36:34.565 --> 00:36:36.630
Right, this checklist, that checklist.

00:36:36.630 --> 00:36:40.865
So when you're trained to come into the airplane to get it ready to fly, there's two things.

00:36:40.865 --> 00:36:42.188
You have what they call a flow.

00:36:42.188 --> 00:36:45.894
So I sit in my seat and I take a flow with my hand.

00:36:45.894 --> 00:36:57.492
I go up and down every switch and every panel to make sure everything's exactly where I want it, and then we check it with a checklist to make sure all the critical items have been accomplished.

00:36:57.940 --> 00:37:01.927
You don't think about that part of it when you're a passenger on an airplane that you know.

00:37:02.188 --> 00:37:02.630
I will now.

00:37:02.630 --> 00:37:10.322
You do now right, like somebody's been there for an hour and a half running through every single button and switch and they're going to be there.

00:37:10.864 --> 00:37:15.184
And you're going to be there an hour afterwards, right, doing your post-flight stuff, correct?

00:37:15.204 --> 00:37:16.246
post-flight's pretty quick.

00:37:16.246 --> 00:37:17.610
I mean post-flight, we're off.

00:37:17.610 --> 00:37:20.123
I mean we can be off before some of the passengers are.

00:37:20.123 --> 00:37:27.802
Depending on how you know many people are on the plane, post-flight is not all that much, especially if another crew is coming in, if they're already waiting in the jetway or anything.

00:37:27.802 --> 00:37:33.682
We shut the engines down, we do our securing checklist and I like to say goodbye to the passengers.

00:37:33.682 --> 00:37:35.469
I kind of live the airline pilot life.

00:37:36.213 --> 00:37:40.827
But if we have to get to the hotel because we need rest or something like that, we can leave it.

00:37:40.827 --> 00:37:42.873
It's powered up and it's fine.

00:37:42.873 --> 00:37:53.849
We are really careful to make sure that if they had done some maintenance, that everything is exactly where it needs to be before we go and the checklist is like the final backstop.

00:37:53.849 --> 00:37:55.333
The airplane warns you to.

00:37:55.333 --> 00:37:59.800
You know it's got warning systems like your car, but the checklist is the final backstop.

00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:00.422
Very cool.

00:38:00.422 --> 00:38:04.231
So, since we're on this part, talk about the lifestyle.

00:38:04.231 --> 00:38:10.786
Talk about living in a hotel room, talk about traveling all the time, what your days off are like.

00:38:10.786 --> 00:38:14.451
Do you get four in a row because you've been flying for five in a row?

00:38:14.451 --> 00:38:15.103
How does this?

00:38:15.103 --> 00:38:16.007
How does it work?

00:38:16.007 --> 00:38:20.510
Obviously, it's different with each airline, but what's the general lifestyle of a pilot?

00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:21.753
You'd be surprised.

00:38:21.753 --> 00:38:24.710
It's very similar across all the major airlines.

00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:31.293
It's all unionized and we all have contracts that we know that we have the same basic contracts.

00:38:31.293 --> 00:38:33.168
Right, there's just some minor differences in it.

00:38:33.168 --> 00:38:40.552
And what's so nice is it's very flexible in most airlines and if you live close to base, like I do, I just drive an hour to the airport.

00:38:40.552 --> 00:38:42.342
It makes it a different life.

00:38:42.342 --> 00:38:45.266
It's much easier if you live in bays and don't what they call commute.

00:38:46.188 --> 00:39:04.030
The typical schedule for a line pilot like myself meaning just flying a regular line of time we call it is somewhere between 15 to 17 days a month is what you work, and I typically fly two to four day trips.

00:39:04.030 --> 00:39:08.954
So we have all kinds of trips one day trips, two day trips, three day trips, four day trips, five day trips.

00:39:08.954 --> 00:39:19.181
The guys that live really close to the airport, they like the turns we call like a one day trip where you just go to the airport, fly to Kennedy and back, or maybe do three legs that day, like a triangle or something, because they're home every night.

00:39:19.181 --> 00:39:22.226
So you can actually live this lifestyle and actually do that.

00:39:22.226 --> 00:39:25.972
Now you got to be pretty senior, probably, and live very close to the airport.

00:39:25.972 --> 00:39:29.242
I prefer since I have to drive an hour each way, it's too much to do.

00:39:29.282 --> 00:39:31.451
Turns to fly three and four day trips.

00:39:31.451 --> 00:39:40.981
Typically you go out, fly two to three legs a day, lay over, do the same thing the next day and the same thing the next day for three or four days.

00:39:40.981 --> 00:39:43.788
We have very flexible schedules.

00:39:43.788 --> 00:39:48.487
We can trade with other guys and you can swap trips and you can do other things.

00:39:48.487 --> 00:39:50.652
It's pretty nice to be able to move my schedule around.

00:39:50.652 --> 00:39:52.789
Like when I'm doing the ski patrol stuff in the winter.

00:39:52.789 --> 00:39:59.621
I move all my flying to like the beginning of the month on one month and then the end of the month and the next month, so I get two weeks off in between.

00:39:59.701 --> 00:40:00.282
Oh, that's great.

00:40:00.402 --> 00:40:02.547
Right, so it works out really well.

00:40:02.547 --> 00:40:04.572
Now there are very strict rules, like you had mentioned.

00:40:04.572 --> 00:40:09.806
We can't fly so many over so many hours in a day and that depends on what time of day you started.

00:40:09.806 --> 00:40:14.103
If you're flying into the WACL, you know the window of circadian low for your body.

00:40:14.103 --> 00:40:19.581
Then you can't fly as many hours and you need more hours rest in between flights.

00:40:19.581 --> 00:40:22.688
So it's very complicated, but we got computers to help us with that.

00:40:22.728 --> 00:40:24.192
to say, okay, yeah this is a legal trip.

00:40:24.192 --> 00:40:25.233
That's not a legal trip.

00:40:25.233 --> 00:40:31.952
It's usually not a problem, unless we run into delays and cancellations and all kinds of stuff, which is a large headache.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.170
What is the maximum number of hours you're allowed to fly in a day?

00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.505
Typically nine.

00:40:39.349 --> 00:40:39.610
Okay.

00:40:40.179 --> 00:40:41.465
Yeah, it could be eight.

00:40:41.465 --> 00:40:45.081
It just depends if you started like two in the morning or three in the morning.

00:40:45.081 --> 00:40:53.231
It's typically nine hours and it's also based on how many legs you fly and the time of day you showed, but it's typically about nine hours by the time I'm off duty.

00:40:53.231 --> 00:40:55.987
Sometimes it could be 12 to 14 hours.

00:40:55.987 --> 00:41:01.168
It can be some pretty long days sometimes, but you get used to it and you get used to living in hotels.

00:41:01.168 --> 00:41:01.891
You had asked me.

00:41:01.891 --> 00:41:06.670
It's just a lifestyle and you make the best of it.

00:41:06.670 --> 00:41:11.251
You know, and there are great times too, like I can bring my wife on if I have a long layover in DC or something.

00:41:11.251 --> 00:41:13.347
Well, we're going to go do some museums or something right.

00:41:13.347 --> 00:41:19.103
Or we're down in the Caribbean at a nice resort and you can bring family or friends and stuff like that with you.

00:41:19.103 --> 00:41:20.123
Beats working for a living.

00:41:22.264 --> 00:41:26.768
That concludes part one of this great conversation with Captain Ken Petchour.

00:41:26.768 --> 00:41:29.572
We'll pick things up right where we left off next week.

00:41:29.572 --> 00:41:31.193
Thank you again for joining us.

00:41:31.193 --> 00:41:36.297
If this episode made you think of somebody who could be a great guest, we'd love to hear from you.

00:41:36.297 --> 00:41:42.025
Please reach out to us through the contact page of our website, which can be found at NoWrongChoicescom.

00:41:42.025 --> 00:41:47.489
While you're there, check out the blog for a deeper look at our takeaways from each episode.

00:41:47.489 --> 00:41:50.000
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00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.349
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00:41:54.349 --> 00:41:58.943
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00:41:58.943 --> 00:42:01.027
Thank you again for listening.