Transcript
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Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, a podcast about the adventures of life that explores the career journeys of inspiring and interesting people.
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I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by the other fellas, Tushar Saxena and Larry Shad.
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For those who might be joining us for the first time, and for anyone else who hasn't done this yet, please support us by following no Wrong Choices on your podcasting platform of choice and by giving us a five star rating.
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We also ask that you join our community by following along on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram Threads and now X, by searching for the no Wrong Choices podcast.
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You can also connect with us at NoWrongChoicescom.
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This episode features the Chief Business Development and Strategy Officer for the Milwaukee Bucks, Matt Pizaras Tushar.
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I believe you have a long history with Matt, so you were the perfect person to set up this conversation.
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Yeah, I've known Matt since we were kids and actually he was one of the best friends of my cousin and I could see the young age like this guy was going to be somebody someday.
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And you know, matt was a natural athlete, is a natural athlete.
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He was a huge basketball nut, a great baseball player, when we were all young.
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Actually, he probably wanted to be a professional athlete when he grew up.
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To be quite honest, yeah, we all talk about what he wanted to be when we grow up.
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He wanted to be.
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He probably wanted to play for the Yankees.
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He was a huge Yankee fan and he and my cousin and all his group of friends they're the reason why I really got into fantasy sports, whether it be baseball or basketball or football.
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They were the reason why I really got into fantasy sports as a kid.
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So I am so happy as to where Matt has ended up in his career path because I know he's done things the right way.
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He started out as an intern with the NFL and then used that and leveraged those relationships to get where he is today.
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I'm telling you you're going to love the story of my buddy, matt Pizarro.
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Yeah, I'm excited to talk to Matt because I think a lot of athletes out there dream of being in a front office and running an organization and I'm excited to see if he gives us that playbook, you know, if he gives us that script of how you go from being an athlete and enjoying athletics as a child to you know, obviously one rung at a time, building his way up to what is now one of the most highly coveted positions in all of basketball.
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So, yeah, I'm excited to talk to him and see if he gives us that playbook, because I know a lot of people are out there dreaming of just doing exactly that.
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Absolutely.
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You know, and from my perspective, as somebody who you know worked within the entertainment, advertising, marketing industry for a very, very long time, at different moments I crossed over the sports marketing industry, so I have a unique perspective as to how difficult it is to get into that space, how low paying it is at the very beginning.
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You know how you have to pay your dues for an extremely long time to get anywhere and there's a huge, huge number or amount of attrition before you know anybody can really establish traction within that space.
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So Matt is an example of somebody who who did it, pushed his way through and became incredibly successful.
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So I'm very eager to hear what his formula was and what approach he took.
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So here is Matt Pizarra.
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Matt, thank you so much for joining us.
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Thank you for having me All right.
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So thanks for the disclosure to everybody, including you two guys.
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I've known Matt for a long time.
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When I mean a long time, I've known him since we were kids.
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He's actually one of the best friends of my cousin and when we were kids, obviously you know, I would get together with them.
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They lived very close to me.
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He's actually one of the reasons why I got really into basketball as a kid.
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Matt, thanks for joining us.
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It's great to speak to you after all these years.
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All those.
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That's true, I've known you for a very long time.
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Sanil, your cousin is a, is a, is as good of a friend as it gets, and I'm thrilled to be on the phone with you guys today.
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So thank you.
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All right, so let's let's talk about way back when.
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Way back when did you see yourself where you are today?
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I mean, obviously, huge sports nut like me, did you always want to be in the realm of sports?
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No, I definitely did not say any of this and it's not something that I that I deemed was possible until, maybe, post college and my first experience, which was as an intern at the NFL offices in New York.
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So let's take you back to the beginning, though, even further, though.
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What was the dream if it wasn't this?
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I want to play center field for the Yankees.
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Perfect, there you go.
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Me too.
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Now you're speaking our language.
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That's what.
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I wanted to do.
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But you played sports as a kid too.
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You played baseball, I assume.
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What else did you do?
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Baseball, basketball ran cross country.
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Love sports, love as a fan, love participating, loved it all.
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So when you were in grammar school you thought what?
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Obviously you're trying to be a New York Yankee, but what's the realistic goal?
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Do you want to go into business?
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Do you do marketing?
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You said, doesn't happen until college and later.
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The realistic goal is I'm going to be center field for the Yankee, clearly.
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I really didn't know what I wanted to do.
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After high school I went to Boston College and I wanted to be in business.
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And it was as general as that.
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I really just wanted to be in business.
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I was my interest.
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I went to the Cow School of Management at Boston College along with Sunil, and then I had this opportunity after my junior year and I never, obviously I knew that sports was a business, but I certainly wasn't what it is now and I never thought of that for myself.
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My cousin randomly said to me one day hey, I know this woman who works at the NFL League office.
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Do you want to meet her?
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And I went to the city and I met her and that was kind of my first step.
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She offered me a job as an internship at the NFL League office.
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It's so funny.
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Relationships are always how these things happen.
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It seems right.
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You knew somebody, who knew somebody.
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Is this a paid internship or are you doing it just to gain experience and get into the business?
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So you guys will love this.
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So you know, I imagine, because I know how competitive our internship program is here and they are all over the place At that point.
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This is 1995.
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This woman says to me I'll never forget you know, we've never had an intern at NFL properties, or interns are on the football operations side, but on the business side of NFL properties, would you want to be our first intern?
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I go, yeah, that would be great.
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Wow, wow, that sounds good.
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It wasn't like there was a strict, a structured program, and so she hired me and I thought it was great because I took the ferry in from Cliffside Park, new Jersey, into the city, took the bus across town and they paid.
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They did pay me and they gave me free lunch every day.
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So I thought I had me, that's fantastic.
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I was like this, is it that?
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was it.
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This is the greatest internship.
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I've ever heard of.
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I interned for four years.
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None of this stuff ever happened.
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So I'll give you more.
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She I won't push the sentence, she gave me a journey, I got a hat, like I thought I had it all, and so you'll love this.
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At one point she says to me you know, we have this program where all of our national partners get an in market day at a training camp.
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So, for example, every single NFL market, miami, whatever it's Cleveland they have a day where the NFL hosts their local people from Pepsi or whoever, at that local training camp.
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She said would you like to be our representative in a few at a few days?
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I'm like, yeah, that sounds great.
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Absolutely that sounds great.
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So they give me my little NFL golf shirt, my hat.
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I'm like, wait a second, how do I get there?
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I don't know, I don't know anything, I don't know we pay for it.
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I had to rent a car.
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I don't even think I was old enough to rent a car to drive to these places and I'm like this is I got it made.
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This is the greatest thing ever.
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Years later, as I thought back on it, I was like, oh, now I get it, the one I went to.
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No offense against any Cincinnati, cleveland and, by the way, they weren't in Cincinnati and Cleveland.
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I had to drive to Kentucky and they were like on Friday and Saturday in the summer, I'm like, oh, I get it, these people want to go to the Hamptons and go to their pool parties and they put the interns to Cleveland.
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They weren't thrilled about it because I was thrilled.
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That's great.
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That's well worth it.
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I think back on my internship.
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I interned at NBC Sports in New York and a little bit before you 92, and my pay was zero and I worked.
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I busted my butt.
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It was an incredible experience, but help was not something they were providing, they were very.
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I was supposed to be happy to be there, which I was, but sounds like I had it pretty good.
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You do that internship and what kind of doors does that open?
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I guess what year were you when you did that?
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Junior or senior that?
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was the summer between my junior and senior year.
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So you go back senior year.
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You've now had a taste of the real world and you've had a look at what could be.
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Did you then focus solely on sports marketing from that point forward?
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Yeah.
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So I went from I don't know at all what I want to do to this is exactly what I want to do.
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I was enthralled with it, like the everything that I want, why we love the business of sports.
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I loved all that went into it that I had no idea about and I was focused on doing it.
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And this is early internet, so it wasn't like I could do a bunch of research.
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So I remember this guy at the NFL gave me this.
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I remember this big blue book.
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It was massive.
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I basically had contact information for every single company involved in sports, from agencies to leagues to teams, you name it.
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They were in there proper brands, and I just spent the whole entire year writing handwritten letters to all these places and I sent it to everybody to try to open it, open doors.
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And I would mention that I had this internship with the NFL.
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First sentence Over the internet of the NFL.
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How many people did you hear back from?
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How long did it take?
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So I got a ton of letters, the standard thanks, we'll let you know letters, and it's so funny they were saying letters, not emails, but they were physical letters.
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And one day I got a call from forget, my favorite basketball team at the time obviously not now, but at the time my favorite team period the New York Knicks and I remember getting a letter on Knicks letterhead and they said, hey, we want to talk to you.
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And they said you have experience.
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And I called them back and I ended up getting a position on their game night marketing staff.
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So game nights only, wow, look at this, all right.
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So let's take a let's.
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Let's put aside the fact that you know you've been able to.
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You have to put aside the dream of playing center field for the New York Yankees.
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Did you now come?
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Did it now come into play?
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That, hey, if I, if I do a really good job for the Knicks, I could be out there playing point for the Knicks at this point.
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Let's see, we're talking what 90.
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So you're going to back up Greg Anthony at this point.
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Well, at that point I had four years at Boston College, so my physical well-being wasn't as good as it was.
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When I was dreaming about playing Centerfield for the Entries, I was like 207.
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What does the nightly marketing person do?
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Like, are you the guy on the floor with the t-shirt, cannon, shooting things into the crowd?
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What is that role?
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You name giveaways, stuff on the court Because basically the operations of the game can't happen with just their full-time staff, so they bring in people to help supplement that.
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And it started out that I would get one game a month.
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Then all of a sudden I would do a good job two games a month and so on and so forth.
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And it was funny a lesson for anybody listening to this.
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You know I always get calls and I'm sure you guys do from younger people.
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It hit me right away I mean the Knicks were my team at that point and the fact that I'm walking into Madison Square Garden without a ticket at these Knick games and they are hot at this point, they're a great team selling out every game and my parents are huge Knicks fans and I would come home and they'd be like, oh, who won?
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I have no idea.
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I've got all these things to do.
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I wasn't about that Exactly.
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I'll tell you the amount of people that I saw weeded out, that lost their job immediately because they were more focused on watching the game and, like to me, that seemed obvious that I was there to do a job, but to a lot of people it wasn't.
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I tell people right away when they contact me it's great to be a fan, but if you're not a fan of the business, then this isn't for you.
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All right.
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So let me ask you is that what was going on Day one, when you were there, you kind of noticed that the staff was evaluating the game day staff on a game to game basis, that those who didn't cut it, they were gotten rid of.
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As you said, they were fired.
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So is that how you approach it every day or every time you were called in?
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This is my next job performance test.
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I didn't really, because to me it was obvious.
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It wasn't like I was noticing that they were observing people, it was just that hey, what happened to Bob?
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How come he's not here?
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Well, he was just, he just watched the game, he didn't do anything.
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So it seemed obvious to me that if you're there to do a job, just do it.
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And by nature I started benefiting from that.
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So talk to us a little bit about what the day-to-day job was for a young person, starting in the marketing department of the Knicks.
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I have friends who have worked there and I've heard horror stories about having to be at every game, the hours being completely crazy.
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What was that experience?
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What were you doing when you walked in the door?
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So I would get there three hours before tip off.
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They have what they would call the game night marketing script, which is basically it's like a TV show, everything that's going to go on the whole night and you get assigned to different things.
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So this giveaway or this promotion, and your assignment would be to run that promotion and be responsible for it.
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And the more that I went along, the more responsibility I got.
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Like what promotions?
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Let's say, for example like what promotions were you responsible for on a night-to-night basis?
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Hey, tonight we're giving out 20,000 towels.
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Make sure that the towels get to each tower.
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Make sure that the people giving them out are doing it right.
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Make sure that there's enough stock that if tower A runs out, we move some over from tower D.
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Just make sure that it runs smoothly.
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So how long were you at Medicine Square Garden?
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What do you take from there?
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And because obviously your path moves on, but I think you were there for quite a while, right Like seven or eight years.
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Yeah, because I was able to turn that experience of being on the game night staff.
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At the end of my first season they said hey, it's time for the playoffs.
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Would you want to?
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We need a lot of extra help.
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Would you want to work in the office and we'll pay you?
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You know, I was in full time, we'll pay you a per diem to work in the office during the playoffs.
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So now I'm like geez, not only am I working for the Knicks, they want me in the office all day during the playoffs, like I was in heaven.
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And then, shortly after that, they offered me a full-time job.
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So and I ended up being there for seven and a half years.
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So I have to think, when you're doing something from the grassroots up like that and you're at the position you're at now with the Milwaukee Bucks which we'll get to in a little while but that you're taking lessons, you're honing your craft, you're kind of fine-tuning, oh I would never do that again if I were in that position.
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Or I'm going to take this and learn from that.
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Are you taking notes mentally, in terms of business-wise, how you would handle things at this point?
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No question, I was a sponge and I was fortunate to meet a lot of amazing people who I have relationships with to this day, and they took the time to mentor me and give me knowledge and guide me and it's pretty incredible and in fact, the amazing thing and we won't kind of bury the lead here but two of the people that I worked with at the Knicks are here in Milwaukee and we moved here together.
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There you go, that's what it's all about.
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So I was going to ask.
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So, like, who are some of these people?
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Who are you saying, who you would say, who you would credit for your rise and have given you direction throughout your career, and now they're with you.
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No question.
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So number one clearly not even a question is Peter Fagan, who's the president of the Bucks.
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So I'm there a little while at the garden and one day my boss says, hey, you're going to have a new boss.
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And here comes this guy, peter Fagan, and we met in late 1998, he came to the garden Meanwhile we're in the middle of a lockout, which was fascinating, and so Peter is my new boss.
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That's again 1998.
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And we have had an impact on each other that I couldn't even possibly quantify in words, but I guess I'll get to the story of how I got here, because it is.
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It's really amazing.
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So Peter's twin brother is an educator, so he's a teacher, and he has run this Saturday morning basketball game like clockwork at the Jim and Trevor Day School every Saturday for almost 30 years.
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They call it Saturday morning run.
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He's the commissioner, treats it super seriously.
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If you're a jerk, you get kicked out.
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If you're not, if you don't show up, you get kicked out.
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It is no joke.
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And it's also like the best networking ever.
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It's been featured on CNBC, the New York Times, you name it.
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It's been everywhere.
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And I started playing in the game when I started, when Peter came to the mix and one day in 2004, peter says hey, one of Dan's Dan's twin brother, one of Dan's student parents are going to come play in the game.
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Great.
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And he introduces us to a guy named Mark Lazarie, and at the time I had just gone from the Knicks and the Nets.
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And Peter says oh, mark's one of your new bosses.
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I said what are you talking about?
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Mark had bought into the.
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It was a minority investor of the Nets, and when they were playing I moved to Brooklyn, so he played in the basketball game.
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And as the years went on, mark said you know, I'm I invested in the Nets because one day I want to buy an NBA team and that's the best route to take, and so so some years later, he ended up buying the bucks.
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And that's how we all end up Wow, oh, wow.