Dec. 19, 2023

Cindy Hsu Unveiled: A Tale of Resilience and Excellence in Journalism

Cindy Hsu Unveiled: A Tale of Resilience and Excellence in Journalism
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Season 3

Join us  for an exclusive interview with Emmy Award-winning TV Anchor and reporter Cindy Hsu, a celebrated journalist from WCBS in New York. In this episode, Cindy shares her incredible journey from aspiring pilot to becoming a renowned figure in the world of news. Discover how she navigated the challenges of the media industry, her dedication to positive storytelling, and her dynamic role as a morning show anchor.

Dive deep into Cindy's personal life as she reveals her struggles with depression and the complexities of being a single mother while thriving in a high-pressure career. Her open and honest conversation about mental health in journalism provides unique insights into the industry's demands and stresses the significance of compassion in the workplace. 

This isn't just another interview; it's an enlightening experience filled with valuable lessons for anyone aspiring to a career in journalism or facing personal obstacles. Get inspired by Cindy Hsu's journey of hope, resilience, and unwavering determination. Listen now to hear the full story of how Cindy Hsu overcame challenges and emerged as a beacon of strength in the media world. 


To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - Career Journeys of Accomplished People

06:30 - Growing Up and Pursuing Journalism

12:14 - Journey to Becoming a Reporter

17:26 - Career Reflections and Resilience in Journalism

30:27 - Challenges of Motherhood and Mental Health

37:32 - Overcoming Stigma, Sharing Mental Health

43:10 - Lessons Learned From Overcoming Challenges

54:05 - Journey Stories and Community Support

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.746 --> 00:00:08.705
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, the podcast that explores the career journeys of accomplished people.

00:00:08.705 --> 00:00:14.833
We showcase these stories to provide insights that are strategic, inspiring and, most of all, entertaining.

00:00:14.833 --> 00:00:19.530
I'm Larry Samuel, soon to be joined by the other fellas, tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:00:19.530 --> 00:00:28.672
If you've been enjoying our show or are new to the program, please support no Wrong Choices by following us wherever you're listening right now and by giving us a five-star rating.

00:00:28.672 --> 00:00:37.189
We also encourage you to connect with us on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram Threads and X, or to send us a note by anoeronkchoicescom.

00:00:37.189 --> 00:00:46.009
This episode features the Emmy Award-winning TV news anchor and reporter, cindy Shu, who can be seen on WCVSTV in New York.

00:00:46.009 --> 00:00:51.371
Tushar is a distant colleague of Cindy's, who also works in the CBS Newsroom.

00:00:51.371 --> 00:00:54.549
You are the perfect person to set up this conversation for us.

00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.881
Well, cindy Shu and I actually are colleagues, so I'll give you that as our full disclosure on this.

00:00:59.881 --> 00:01:03.006
I mean, she and I are not on the same level.

00:01:03.006 --> 00:01:07.950
She's like 50 levels above me in terms of her ability to tell the news.

00:01:07.950 --> 00:01:14.787
She's a great storyteller, she's what we call in the business a consummate pro right.

00:01:14.787 --> 00:01:19.025
But this is not a job for everyone, and I say that all the time to everybody.

00:01:19.025 --> 00:01:24.084
This is not a job for everyone, whether it be an anchor, whether they even be working behind the scenes.

00:01:24.084 --> 00:01:41.328
There's a lot of stress involved, a lot of pressure involved, and there's a reason why this job, why this career being in broadcast media has a lot of turnover because there's a lot of stress and pressure involved and sometimes it's not easy to handle.

00:01:41.328 --> 00:01:47.010
Not everyone can, and she's one of the few who's been able to kind of deal with that over the course of her career.

00:01:47.250 --> 00:01:53.185
Yeah, and I know Cindy's a big advocate for mental health, so I'm sure we're going to touch on that quite a bit.

00:01:53.185 --> 00:01:56.989
And you're right, t, they're not handing out these jobs to just anybody, right?

00:01:56.989 --> 00:02:10.659
This is a real prove it or lose it kind of position here, you know, and she obviously, with all of her success, emmy winning success I mean, she obviously paid her dues and then some and is a consummate professional.

00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:17.305
As you said, it takes a real passionate person to find these stories and then find a way to share these stories.

00:02:17.305 --> 00:02:20.288
But you're right, it is high stress, it is high anxiety.

00:02:20.288 --> 00:02:28.544
I don't know if I could step up there and not feel the stage fright, the anxiety of giving a performance, basically right, so high stress.

00:02:28.544 --> 00:02:30.490
And they're not just handing these things out.

00:02:30.490 --> 00:02:33.688
So I'm so excited to hear her journey and how she got there.

00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:53.486
And to that point, as I was preparing to do the interview today, I was watching all these clips and all these stories that Cindy has done throughout I guess really not her career, A lot of the stuff was very recent but her energy, her smile, her presence comes through and just kind of makes you feel good.

00:02:53.486 --> 00:02:59.747
So I look forward to Cindy making us feel good, and now one way or another, over the course of the next hour or so.

00:02:59.747 --> 00:03:01.485
So here is Cindy Shoe.

00:03:01.485 --> 00:03:03.663
Cindy, thank you so much for joining us.

00:03:04.567 --> 00:03:05.288
You're welcome.

00:03:05.288 --> 00:03:05.980
How are you?

00:03:06.682 --> 00:03:07.766
Very well, thank you.

00:03:07.766 --> 00:03:09.161
It's nice to.

00:03:09.161 --> 00:03:19.251
I guess this is a formal way for us to talk, as you and I occasionally bump into each other in the neighborhood, as we have recently discovered that we are neighbors, so it's nice to Wait a second.

00:03:19.371 --> 00:03:20.432
Is that across the screen?

00:03:20.432 --> 00:03:20.734
She does.

00:03:22.241 --> 00:03:24.064
Our buildings literally look at each other.

00:03:24.064 --> 00:03:24.485
Nice.

00:03:24.925 --> 00:03:26.909
Yeah, we had a nice dog walk, it was really fun.

00:03:27.270 --> 00:03:29.842
Absolutely Very good, cindy.

00:03:29.842 --> 00:03:31.427
Let's start at the beginning here.

00:03:31.427 --> 00:03:40.306
Tell people a little bit about yourself, who is Cindy Shoe, what does she do for a living, and a little bit about your day to day.

00:03:40.787 --> 00:03:52.146
Okay, so I am a news anchor and reporter for WCBS TV in New York City, and I've been here for 30 years which is a long time.

00:03:52.146 --> 00:03:57.489
Because normally we all get fired every few years, as we all know.

00:03:57.489 --> 00:04:03.010
So yeah, I've been here and I focus on uplifting stories.

00:04:03.010 --> 00:04:08.150
That's really my passion and right now my latest thing is I anchor a 9 am show.

00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:10.723
It's an hour long and we focus on.

00:04:10.723 --> 00:04:16.048
You know, everyone says I don't watch the news because it's depressing, and we try to stay away from those types of stories.

00:04:18.504 --> 00:04:20.430
So, cindy, let's go back to the beginning a little bit.

00:04:20.430 --> 00:04:23.168
So the Cindy Shoe story starts where?

00:04:23.168 --> 00:04:26.769
And is this always what a little Cindy Shoe wanted to do?

00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:31.545
Not to sound like a Dr Seuss book, but nonetheless, what did little Cindy Shoe want to do?

00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:40.334
Little Cindy Shoe wanted to be a fashion designer, a lawyer and a doctor.

00:04:40.334 --> 00:04:43.670
Those were just things that you know were little Cindy Shoe.

00:04:43.670 --> 00:04:45.064
But then I looked at all my skills.

00:04:45.064 --> 00:04:45.908
None of them matched.

00:04:45.908 --> 00:04:49.007
I didn't have any of these skills and so You're a real snappy dresser?

00:04:49.028 --> 00:04:50.271
I don't know what you're talking about.

00:04:52.665 --> 00:04:59.586
No, I actually, when we're talking retail, I went for the summers and I worked retail and I was like this is not fun, right.

00:04:59.586 --> 00:05:06.264
But then I actually, let's see, when I went to college, I decided I wanted to follow in my father's footsteps.

00:05:06.264 --> 00:05:14.773
He was a Coast Guard pilot, so I decided I wanted to be an Army pilot and I went to Virginia Tech in the Army ROTC program.

00:05:14.773 --> 00:05:16.485
So that's what I wanted to do.

00:05:16.485 --> 00:05:19.910
And then, my second year in, I found out you had a 2020 vision.

00:05:19.910 --> 00:05:23.343
I did not have 2020 vision, so I had to pivot right there.

00:05:23.665 --> 00:05:28.127
Wow, yeah, going back to your dad a little bit, that's really cool.

00:05:28.127 --> 00:05:33.672
You know what was your, the story of your parents, and where was he a pilot?

00:05:33.672 --> 00:05:36.286
I know you mentioned the Coast Guard, but what was his story?

00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:41.750
Both my parents were born in China and they came over as children.

00:05:41.750 --> 00:05:47.031
My father went to Charlottesville, virginia, because his father was a pathologist.

00:05:47.031 --> 00:06:00.845
He became a professor there and then he brought his family from China years later and my dad was one of the first Asian Americans in the Coast Guard Academy and he graduated and became a pilot.

00:06:00.845 --> 00:06:02.043
And I don't know.

00:06:02.043 --> 00:06:13.391
You know, I think anybody, but especially Asians in general, really want to please our parents, and so I thought what better way to you know, to make him proud and to do what he does?

00:06:13.391 --> 00:06:14.843
So that's what.

00:06:14.843 --> 00:06:16.869
I had no idea what it meant to fly.

00:06:16.869 --> 00:06:18.908
I had no idea if I would be good at it.

00:06:18.908 --> 00:06:25.262
I basically did it because I thought it seems like a good job and my dad would be really proud of me.

00:06:25.899 --> 00:06:29.951
So was this something that was was in your mind from being a little girl?

00:06:29.951 --> 00:06:32.185
I heard you grew up in Hawaii.

00:06:32.185 --> 00:06:33.910
Is that true?

00:06:33.910 --> 00:06:36.666
Did you grow up in Hawaii, and what was your childhood like?

00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:42.470
So the Coast Guard is just like any other military branch, in the sense you move around a lot.

00:06:42.509 --> 00:06:43.331
Right sure.

00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:49.144
So I was born in Hawaii but I was only there for a year and a half that we kept moving every two or four years.

00:06:49.144 --> 00:06:56.372
But I say Hawaii is a little bit more home because when I went to college they went back to Hawaii.

00:06:56.372 --> 00:07:02.529
He happened to be stationed back in Hawaii, so I was there for summer school and a lot of, a lot more time.

00:07:02.529 --> 00:07:06.964
But yeah, it was just moving around a lot and you know it was.

00:07:06.964 --> 00:07:12.588
It was a little challenging because most of the time we would move to places where there were not other Asians.

00:07:12.588 --> 00:07:20.252
So it was a lot of getting made fun of and being embarrassed about being Chinese, honestly.

00:07:20.252 --> 00:07:29.971
But as you get older you get more comfortable in your skin and honestly, it wasn't until New York City did I really feel good about who I really am.

00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:39.829
I have to think that growing up and moving from place to place and trying to make friends like that, and being Asian, I mean it must have been difficult for you.

00:07:39.829 --> 00:07:42.233
I would imagine how did that shape you.

00:07:42.233 --> 00:07:51.572
I mean that must have given you, as you said, the courage to later on conquer some really serious professional hurdles, personal hurdles, what have you?

00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:53.766
I'm trying to think, I don't know.

00:07:53.766 --> 00:07:55.343
I just I spent a lot of time.

00:07:55.343 --> 00:07:56.185
I have a little brother.

00:07:56.185 --> 00:07:57.168
He's two years younger.

00:07:57.168 --> 00:08:02.211
I spent a lot of time defending him because he was very nerdy.

00:08:02.211 --> 00:08:04.663
Looking Now he's like a special forces guy.

00:08:04.663 --> 00:08:05.607
So he's the man now.

00:08:05.627 --> 00:08:07.089
Yeah, there you go he yeah.

00:08:08.141 --> 00:08:17.149
So I mean physically getting into fights for people who would pick on him and I think it shaped me in that trying to, honestly trying to fit in.

00:08:17.149 --> 00:08:21.810
I went so far as to tell people I was Hawaiian.

00:08:21.810 --> 00:08:42.585
I didn't say Chinese because I was from Hawaii and I even this is really weird but I actually told people I was Catholic because it's almost like everyone I knew was Catholic and I thought, oh well, that'll get me in with them, that we're you know we're the same, so it was a lot of trying to fit in, but I think any sort of hardship helps you when you get older.

00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:47.897
You know I honestly send your story is not that dissimilar from mine growing up a bit.

00:08:47.897 --> 00:08:56.032
I mean I didn't, I didn't move around as much as you did as an army brad, but the notion of growing up you know A child of immigrants.

00:08:56.032 --> 00:09:00.600
The journey is kind of the same, where you're always, you're always trying to fit in.

00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.652
You don't really totally fit in, so you do what you have to do to To fit in as well as you can, right.

00:09:05.652 --> 00:09:07.193
So I mean I totally get that.

00:09:07.193 --> 00:09:12.259
I was bring up the idea that you know minorities, minorities and you know kids of immigrants.

00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:20.432
Their parents want them to go into the big four careers which I always say, which is law, business, medicine and, like, engineering.

00:09:20.432 --> 00:09:21.975
So the four careers.

00:09:21.975 --> 00:09:25.600
What was it like for you to say I want to become a?

00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:27.863
How have your parents say when you say I want to become a pilot?

00:09:27.863 --> 00:09:30.826
And then you said you have to pivot in in at va tech.

00:09:30.826 --> 00:09:34.520
So my question after that would be what was the pivot in va tech?

00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:38.472
The pivot was oh my goodness, what the heck.

00:09:38.472 --> 00:09:47.559
Let me look at what skills I have, and the only skill I really felt I naturally had was being very curious about everything.

00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:53.845
I mean, my friends used to say, can you stop interrogating that person you just met, because it's very comfortable for them.

00:09:53.845 --> 00:09:56.386
But I, like I wanted to know everything right away.

00:09:56.386 --> 00:10:00.977
So To me that is a key you know thing for a reporter.

00:10:00.977 --> 00:10:03.744
So that's really how I decided to become a reporter.

00:10:04.669 --> 00:10:09.357
Did moving around a lot sort of shape how you deal with people meeting.

00:10:09.357 --> 00:10:13.424
It made it easier for you to make connections because you are making connections all the time.

00:10:14.049 --> 00:10:14.650
Definitely.

00:10:14.650 --> 00:10:21.341
I mean because in my business you move around as well, a lot you know I moved.

00:10:21.341 --> 00:10:29.604
Let's see, my first job Was a year and a half that I was a place in two years and another year and a half and then I moved again, so that didn't bother me at all.

00:10:29.604 --> 00:10:33.758
Where you know somebody who may have lived in the same one or two places their whole life.

00:10:33.758 --> 00:10:36.484
It might have been difficult but for me I was like I'm used to it.

00:10:36.870 --> 00:10:37.412
Interesting.

00:10:37.412 --> 00:10:50.702
So the time at virginity tech you pivot away from from the pilot pursuit and your, your friends have told you to stop asking so many questions or at least direct them towards the right audience.

00:10:50.702 --> 00:10:54.716
So is that where you started to pursue journalism?

00:10:55.316 --> 00:10:57.480
yes, that's exactly where I started.

00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.924
So I started doing internships and I really enjoyed them.

00:11:00.924 --> 00:11:03.192
I had Really great mentors.

00:11:03.192 --> 00:11:06.780
People would take me under their wing, and that's what I always tell young people.

00:11:06.780 --> 00:11:13.778
Now you have to find that person who's really going to be your cheerleader, because I still have the same cheerleaders from decades ago.

00:11:13.778 --> 00:11:20.558
So, yeah, I just started interning, really liked it, and I was lucky enough to get into the business.

00:11:21.629 --> 00:11:33.094
I'm a big fan of the idea that mentors need mentors and it's always good to find that person like your first time out with that first internship, so you can kind of look up to so, your best internship.

00:11:33.094 --> 00:11:35.116
Let me ask a couple different questions here.

00:11:35.116 --> 00:11:37.740
One what was your first internship?

00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:38.522
Where was it?

00:11:38.522 --> 00:11:45.041
And then to what was the last internship you had before your first, before your first professional gig?

00:11:47.511 --> 00:11:48.732
Okay, let's see.

00:11:48.732 --> 00:11:54.438
I remember the internship when I was in college.

00:11:54.438 --> 00:12:00.124
Okay, I interned while I was in college for in Wheeling, west Virginia.

00:12:00.124 --> 00:12:13.804
No, no, no, sorry, I'm messing up, I'm blackboard virginia, roanoke, roanoke okay, roanoke, virginia, so it's a little teeny station, roanoke, virginia, and I interned there while I was in college and it was great.

00:12:13.804 --> 00:12:25.503
And then, as far as when I got out of college, the hardest thing to do when you get out of school is to find your first job, because everyone's like, oh, no, one or two years experience, well, how are you gonna get that?

00:12:25.503 --> 00:12:34.076
So then I took an internship that was for the virginia alcoholic beverage control board, which is there?

00:12:34.076 --> 00:12:37.679
The ones who say stop, don't drink and drive, and you know all that sort of stuff.

00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.283
So it was an 18 month internship.

00:12:40.283 --> 00:12:46.129
It was $20,000 was actually a lot of money back then, because those were in the days where you didn't even get paid for.

00:12:47.091 --> 00:12:47.932
A lot more than I got.

00:12:47.932 --> 00:12:55.437
My zero is way less than I got my first internship pay me a grand total of zero I owed money

00:12:56.298 --> 00:13:01.384
I know I that's why it's so funny these days that that you know the interns are paid, but anyway.

00:13:01.384 --> 00:13:07.491
So I did that for a year and a half and out of there I was able to get a job in the business.

00:13:07.491 --> 00:13:12.077
And that's because I told everyone at this internship what I really wanted to do.

00:13:12.077 --> 00:13:16.543
And I think it was safer to do that, because this was a limited time internship.

00:13:16.543 --> 00:13:38.744
It wasn't like you know, they wanted to hire me necessarily, so I let them know my dreams and my boss happened to know a new structure from the gym, so he introduced me to this new structure and then I interned on the weekends at the station, while I work during the week at the alcoholic beverage control board, and that's how you know.

00:13:38.744 --> 00:13:43.967
I really got my tape together and found some more mentors and got started.

00:13:44.850 --> 00:13:47.956
Where was it that you found like that real love for journalism?

00:13:47.956 --> 00:13:53.325
Was it your first internship, the last internship, internship ad, or was it just in school itself?

00:13:54.530 --> 00:14:01.438
Hmm, I don't know, and I don't know if there was ever like oh man, I really want to be a journalist.

00:14:01.438 --> 00:14:04.104
I just think I was floating along.

00:14:04.104 --> 00:14:08.335
Interesting yeah, I don't even know.

00:14:08.335 --> 00:14:11.500
Honestly, I'm not like a big news junkie, I'm not.

00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:15.004
I'm not that person, I just I just like to tell stories.

00:14:15.004 --> 00:14:25.264
So I think it's, I feel like I really wanted to do it when I would get to tell the story of the young person who's doing amazing things, or somebody that I'm really inspired by.

00:14:26.711 --> 00:14:27.673
So okay.

00:14:27.673 --> 00:14:29.014
So it's interesting.

00:14:29.014 --> 00:14:32.399
Was it always going to be an on camera thing?

00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.721
Was that part of the dream?

00:14:33.721 --> 00:14:37.765
Obviously want to tell stories and you just gave great insight into that part of it.

00:14:37.765 --> 00:14:42.816
But you know, being on camera and telling a story is a very different thing.

00:14:42.816 --> 00:14:44.357
Bringing in an audience in that thing.

00:14:44.357 --> 00:14:52.955
Was that always part of the dream and was there nerves involved with that was weird, like there's a lot of Trepidation sometimes when you're speaking in public.

00:14:52.955 --> 00:14:53.996
What was that like?

00:14:53.996 --> 00:14:54.698
Or was that like?

00:14:54.698 --> 00:14:56.842
No, this is the thing and I'm gonna go for it.

00:14:58.331 --> 00:14:58.572
I was.

00:14:58.572 --> 00:15:00.436
This is the thing and I'm gonna go for it.

00:15:00.436 --> 00:15:03.423
I never really considered anything else but being a reporter.

00:15:03.423 --> 00:15:12.312
You know, there's so many jobs, as we know, behind the scenes, and but I just I was drawn to being a reporter on air that's great.

00:15:12.732 --> 00:15:17.355
do you remember what the first story was that you did on camera?

00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:27.863
I don't, but I do remember in New York what my first story was, because that was 30 years ago, but I remember it was a hostage situation and.

00:15:27.863 --> 00:15:29.245
I was really freaked out.

00:15:30.057 --> 00:15:42.202
Yeah, I could see Really that was your first story that it feels like you'd start with, like you know, puppies or something not that, no, no, when you're in New York, you better know your stuff.

00:15:42.202 --> 00:15:42.945
Wow.

00:15:42.945 --> 00:15:47.543
So what cities did you hit along the way once you broke it?

00:15:48.004 --> 00:15:49.275
Let's see so.

00:15:49.275 --> 00:15:52.065
Richmond, Virginia, was where I interned on the weekends.

00:15:52.065 --> 00:15:56.065
My first paid job was in Steubenville, Ohio.

00:15:56.065 --> 00:15:59.965
Then I went to Green Bay, Wisconsin, and then I came to New York.

00:16:00.434 --> 00:16:02.000
Was it a help or a hindrance to be Asian?

00:16:03.595 --> 00:16:11.148
You know, I think it was probably a help in New York because I think they cared about diversity, Right.

00:16:11.148 --> 00:16:19.222
I don't necessarily know if it was a help in the other stations, but the difficulty about that is who's ever going to tell you?

00:16:19.222 --> 00:16:21.179
No one's ever going to tell you that.

00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:26.807
So you have to guess, gosh, do I think it's because of this or do I think it's because of this?

00:16:26.807 --> 00:16:28.600
So you really never know.

00:16:29.215 --> 00:16:31.442
Did you find it harder having to prove yourself as a woman?

00:16:31.442 --> 00:16:33.639
Forget being a minority, but being a woman.

00:16:36.294 --> 00:16:40.379
You know, I honestly I don't know I didn't feel that way.

00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:52.620
As I'm here longer and as I hear stories from other people, I think I feel it more than just from other people's stories as well, but I never felt, you know, as a woman myself, that I'm not getting this or that.

00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:56.984
I think for me it was really honestly the Asian thing.

00:16:57.283 --> 00:16:57.485
Right.

00:16:57.985 --> 00:16:58.105
Yeah.

00:16:59.455 --> 00:17:02.063
So, Cindy, what was the scene like when you got here?

00:17:02.063 --> 00:17:04.300
You got here in 1993, is that right?

00:17:04.582 --> 00:17:04.823
Yes.

00:17:05.674 --> 00:17:10.964
So you're a young woman coming to New York City, the largest market on earth.

00:17:10.964 --> 00:17:14.780
What was the thrill for you?

00:17:14.780 --> 00:17:16.461
How did you get that break?

00:17:16.461 --> 00:17:18.520
First of all, how did you get that break?

00:17:18.520 --> 00:17:19.659
How did you get this job?

00:17:21.035 --> 00:17:25.775
I got this job because you know you were talking about how many things you have to send out resumes.

00:17:25.775 --> 00:17:27.923
Back then it was tapes.

00:17:27.923 --> 00:17:39.439
You actually sent a tape to a news director and I was rejected from so many places that I would take the rejection letters and I would hang them on my wall to say you know what I'm trying, I'm trying.

00:17:39.439 --> 00:17:51.987
So one of the news directors from one of the stations I sent a tape to said you're not ready for here which I think it was Seattle or something but you should get an agent.

00:17:51.987 --> 00:17:57.002
So he actually suggested an agent and I got an agent.

00:17:57.002 --> 00:18:06.421
And that's when you know, the tapes really got on the right desk, because in the larger markets they go through agents, they don't just look at everybody's tape.

00:18:06.421 --> 00:18:09.664
So that's how it was actually.

00:18:09.684 --> 00:18:31.858
I feel like this is terrible to say, but this was the one time I really felt wanted because I got a job in, I guess, in Seattle, offered me a job, philadelphia offered me a job and I had accepted from Philadelphia and then, out of the blue, new York interviewed me and they offered me a job on the spot and I pulled out of Philadelphia.

00:18:31.858 --> 00:18:34.096
So that it was just.

00:18:34.096 --> 00:18:37.244
It was magic, and that magic has never happened again.

00:18:39.597 --> 00:18:40.220
It didn't have to.

00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:44.901
So what's the dynamic?

00:18:44.901 --> 00:18:55.540
Like you know, you're a young woman coming into that the big station where you accepted right away, Was there a hazing period Like what's it like as a young person coming in?

00:18:56.938 --> 00:19:03.621
Well, it was great because, first of all, I think I was the youngest person coming into the newsroom as a reporter.

00:19:03.621 --> 00:19:11.061
I was 27 years old and I'm coming into a newsroom where you've got Jim Jensen, chris Borgin, Vic Miles.

00:19:11.454 --> 00:19:11.855
Jim Jensen.

00:19:11.855 --> 00:19:13.702
I haven't heard that name in forever.

00:19:13.702 --> 00:19:17.183
What an absolute legend that guy is.

00:19:18.576 --> 00:19:28.846
All these folks were legends and what was so wonderful is that they took me under their wing, and I think part of it is because I am not intimidating in any way.

00:19:28.846 --> 00:19:36.459
So they probably saw this young kid who was really wide-eyed and ready to learn and do whatever I need to do.

00:19:36.459 --> 00:19:42.767
They really took me under their wing and I learned so much from them and it's so different now.

00:19:42.767 --> 00:19:44.579
I feel kind of badly.

00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:48.242
I feel nowadays it's much more cutthroat.

00:19:48.242 --> 00:19:51.960
People looking over their backs all the time oh my goodness, who's this person?

00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:52.682
That sort of thing.

00:19:52.682 --> 00:19:54.599
But back then it wasn't like that.

00:19:54.599 --> 00:20:00.945
I love these guys and I have such fond memories of working with them.

00:20:01.515 --> 00:20:04.301
That's a great point about how competitive it is now.

00:20:04.301 --> 00:20:06.106
Did it come easy to you?

00:20:06.106 --> 00:20:13.125
Was this always something that came easy, or did you have to practice it for another camera and get your chops together?

00:20:14.292 --> 00:20:16.442
Oh no, I mean, I don't think it came easy to me.

00:20:16.442 --> 00:20:25.982
I definitely had to watch other people, and just another thing is just to become a really good writer, and that takes time.

00:20:25.982 --> 00:20:28.482
So, no, it didn't come naturally.

00:20:28.482 --> 00:20:32.765
I just watched a lot and learned a lot and got a lot of advice from managers as well.

00:20:33.714 --> 00:20:37.505
That's where I was going to go next, Going into that environment with so many talented people.

00:20:37.505 --> 00:20:43.021
Were there certain folks that really brought you under their wing and brought you along?

00:20:44.385 --> 00:20:46.440
Wow, they all.

00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.977
Did I mean Chris Borgin, did Jim Jensen did I mean?

00:20:50.977 --> 00:20:55.960
He always taught me to really research, research and something that has nothing to do with the business.

00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:57.921
He taught me to be very generous.

00:20:57.921 --> 00:21:04.355
I remember I was I don't know, I was doing some sort of charity and he was the first person who donated $100.

00:21:04.355 --> 00:21:10.845
I was like wow and so yeah, really, all of them, all of them.

00:21:11.914 --> 00:21:15.345
So you mentioned the first story in New York, the hostage situation.

00:21:15.345 --> 00:21:17.563
I'd love to hear about that one as well.

00:21:17.563 --> 00:21:26.923
But what are some of the other big stories that you worked on, things where you just let head say, you know, I've got to pinch myself because I can't believe I'm doing this or something that you're super proud of?

00:21:26.923 --> 00:21:29.382
What were some of the bigger stories that you worked on?

00:21:29.382 --> 00:21:34.679
It's a 30-year career so you don't have to chronicle all of them, but whatever comes to mind.

00:21:35.935 --> 00:22:00.701
Well, honestly, I mean, you know, one of the most difficult stories for me was the first attack on the World Trade Center and so I came in and I think I came in after that attack and I was having to kind of do the story on it and it was that was difficult for me because I didn't really know that much and all the politics and all this sort of stuff.

00:22:00.701 --> 00:22:11.579
So those types of stories TWA flight, northridge earthquake in California that was my first trip and that was interesting.

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:23.491
I don't know 9-11, I mean really any story that comes some of the biggest stories come through New York but they're not the ones that really come to mind.

00:22:23.491 --> 00:22:38.357
When I think of the stories that touch my heart, it's really for me it's the stories of resilient families when a child is really really sick, people helping people.

00:22:40.015 --> 00:22:52.405
The two for me personally that I care about because I was able to see how much it helped people was one that I did when I adopted my daughter in China.

00:22:52.405 --> 00:22:55.964
I brought a camera with me and I documented that.

00:22:55.964 --> 00:22:58.663
This was, you know, almost 20 years ago.

00:22:58.663 --> 00:23:04.583
It wasn't as prevalent as it is now, so a lot of people didn't know what the process was.

00:23:04.583 --> 00:23:09.305
And then one more recently on my mental health struggles.

00:23:09.305 --> 00:23:19.365
So because all the viewers, you know you get so many letters and so many people telling you what those stories meant to them and their lives, those are the ones that come to mind.

00:23:19.595 --> 00:23:21.923
You've been obviously on camera for three decades.

00:23:21.923 --> 00:23:28.998
At this point you feel like there's a bigger responsibility having the anchor chair rather than having the reporter's mic.

00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:34.182
You know what I never thought about that I really haven't.

00:23:34.182 --> 00:23:59.183
The thing I like about being an anchor and having a show that I have a lot of input into is to be able to do the stories that I want to do and I feel will make an impact, whereas when you're a reporter on a show, you are pitching your stories and maybe one out of five will be approved, and so a lot of these ideas you have will never be done.

00:23:59.183 --> 00:24:02.001
So that's what I really appreciate.

00:24:02.835 --> 00:24:04.480
How long did it take you to get into the anchor's chair?

00:24:06.678 --> 00:24:24.005
It didn't take long and it wasn't because ooh, she's good, it was because the morning show anchor, lisa Rudolph, was on maternity leave and so they said maybe, I think maybe two months in called me while I was out on the story and said, can you fill in anchor?

00:24:24.005 --> 00:24:28.598
And I was like, oh my gosh, but yes, I did and I filled it with Maury Alter.

00:24:28.598 --> 00:24:29.780
I don't know if you remember him.

00:24:29.820 --> 00:24:31.905
Oh my God, maury Alter, get out of here.

00:24:31.925 --> 00:24:41.067
Yes, he is a legend and, oh my gosh, what the best person to co-anchor with as your first New York City show.

00:24:41.067 --> 00:24:45.799
He was the kindest and awesome reporter as well, so we had so much fun.

00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:56.443
Lisa did not come back actually, so I kind of, from there on, was anchoring something all the time, usually reporting and anchoring different shows.

00:24:56.443 --> 00:24:58.982
I've done like gosh pretty much every show.

00:24:59.734 --> 00:25:02.067
That was in 1993, still Correct.

00:25:02.067 --> 00:25:03.153
Oh my gosh what.

00:25:03.474 --> 00:25:04.219
Did the anchor share?

00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.390
that quick in your career is unbelievable.

00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:07.294
I was lucky.

00:25:07.294 --> 00:25:12.394
No, I mean obviously you are immensely talented.

00:25:12.394 --> 00:25:13.981
There's no luck to it.

00:25:13.981 --> 00:25:15.340
I mean maybe a little bit, but absolutely.

00:25:15.340 --> 00:25:19.123
But obviously your talent is taken over and it shines through every day.

00:25:19.123 --> 00:25:32.249
So I guess my next question on top of that would be is that you've had so many years on the anchor's chair at this point Do you ever do you miss going back out in the field?

00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:42.647
Oh, I do get to go out on the field, so but there are stories that you want to do out in the field, not that Correct Right, not hostage stories, so to speak.

00:25:43.882 --> 00:25:57.529
No, I do not miss the day of air stories where you get a story at 10 am, you have an hour to make calls and try to get it together for experts and then you go out and shoot it and have it, hopefully in edit by four o'clock.

00:25:57.529 --> 00:25:58.884
No, I do not miss that at all.

00:26:00.381 --> 00:26:08.048
What are those qualities that make up a great host, a great journalist, a great reporter Doing incredible at your job?

00:26:08.048 --> 00:26:12.105
What are those things that you key on to bring your best every day?

00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.903
Treat the viewer as somebody your friend who is right there.

00:26:15.903 --> 00:26:26.666
So when I look at the camera, I see it as a person in a conversation, versus I don't think about how many people are out there and I'm just I don't know.

00:26:26.666 --> 00:26:32.143
I think I'm just very natural and real and if I make a mistake, I make a mistake and I joke about it.

00:26:32.143 --> 00:26:40.746
Or you know, early on in my career I really had trouble holding back any emotions.

00:26:40.746 --> 00:26:43.287
You know, I used to just start crying.

00:26:43.287 --> 00:26:54.085
I would see a, I'd do a story on a young person dying and I would see the coffin going, the little coffin going in the video and the tears would just come.

00:26:54.085 --> 00:27:00.354
So I've always been pretty straightforward and real.

00:27:00.354 --> 00:27:03.008
I think that's my thing.

00:27:04.103 --> 00:27:09.410
I'm so glad you just talked about that, because I'd be a basket case up there.

00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:23.646
You know, because I do think you know you have the I don't wanna call it stage fright, but you have a certain anxiety about being in front of a camera and delivering your performance well and telling your story well so that people understand and care about it.

00:27:23.646 --> 00:27:30.606
But then, as you just said, you also have the emotion of maybe a dramatic story or something that's sad that you're bringing.

00:27:30.606 --> 00:27:31.761
I would be.

00:27:31.761 --> 00:27:35.527
I would have to be an open book because I wouldn't be able to hold it back.

00:27:35.527 --> 00:27:39.204
Do you never tried to hold it, or you always just laid it out there?

00:27:40.339 --> 00:27:59.425
No, I think I tried to hold it back as I got older, because the thing I think we all try to do is not make ourselves the story, which that's why it's also so strange to me that the two stories that I feel made the most impact were stories that I is about something personal, which is always very scary to do.

00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:16.445
So, Cindy, when you meet somebody for the first time like are there, when you talk about tricks of the trade and making somebody comfortable when you're doing a story, are there certain approaches that you take with your reporting in that setting?

00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:18.321
Definitely.

00:28:18.321 --> 00:28:31.530
I always try to talk with them on a personal level before the interview starts and, just if it's a sad story, just share how sad you are about what's happened to them.

00:28:31.530 --> 00:28:44.650
One of the hardest things I think any reporter will tell you is when there's been a horrible loss in a family and it's your job to go knock on the door and ask about that child who was just shot.

00:28:44.650 --> 00:28:47.443
And I remember Pat Battles.

00:28:47.443 --> 00:28:49.563
She's from Channel 4, she's one of my mentors.

00:28:49.563 --> 00:28:53.709
She was from Channel 2 when I first came and she taught me this trick.

00:28:53.709 --> 00:29:02.589
She said she just writes a note saying that I'm out here, I don't wanna bother you, and slip it under the door, and that's how she handles it.

00:29:02.589 --> 00:29:12.065
So that's the trick of the trade as far as out in the field, and I'm trying to think as far as oh, this is kind of funny.

00:29:12.065 --> 00:29:22.244
I noticed, since I've done this 9 am show which has a lot of live guests, I actually and this is what I do normally I always wear little bunny slippers all throughout the newsroom.

00:29:23.624 --> 00:29:27.768
And I only put on regular shoes when I'm actually on TV in my feet show.

00:29:27.768 --> 00:29:39.409
But when I go back to the green room before the show to meet the guests, I always keep my bunny slippers on because I wanna make anybody like oh my God, I can't be nervous around her, she's got bunny slippers on.

00:29:39.409 --> 00:29:41.587
So I do those kind of little things.

00:29:41.587 --> 00:29:44.348
I try to chat with them before and all that sort of thing.

00:29:44.348 --> 00:29:48.603
So making somebody feel really comfortable is important to me.

00:29:49.539 --> 00:30:18.229
Yeah, you're really dealing with somebody in maybe the most vulnerable point in their lives we interviewed a firefighter on one of our podcasts here and you're really dealing with somebody who's maybe in a situation that they're only in once in their life and I would think for you bringing a story to life like that, that guest might be in the same position and that's fascinating that you would have to reconcile all those emotions and make yourself more I don't know, not vulnerable, but approachable to them.

00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:26.888
Definitely always approachable, Because I always keep in mind how difficult it is to talk to people on TV when it's not your job.

00:30:27.339 --> 00:30:40.929
So I wanna shift gears here a little bit, and you alluded to it before you became a single mom in your 30s unique story adopting a child from China, but also just becoming a mom in general.

00:30:40.929 --> 00:30:44.025
How did that affect your career and what was that like?

00:30:44.025 --> 00:30:46.948
Did you have to make major adjustments?

00:30:46.948 --> 00:30:47.711
Was it easy?

00:30:47.711 --> 00:30:48.644
How did that work?

00:30:50.019 --> 00:30:51.946
Well, I've always known I wanted to be a mom.

00:30:51.946 --> 00:30:58.087
I used to be that weirdo who would like look at kids going into the playground and just watch them.

00:30:58.087 --> 00:31:02.049
So I always knew that was that.

00:31:02.049 --> 00:31:03.743
I thought that it would be the.

00:31:03.743 --> 00:31:05.704
You get married and then you have a child and all that.

00:31:05.704 --> 00:31:08.729
And that wasn't happening for me.

00:31:08.729 --> 00:31:12.691
I wasn't meeting anybody that I wanted to get married to.

00:31:13.401 --> 00:31:20.064
So, as I was getting older, I was 37 when I finally adopted Rosie, and it was one of those.

00:31:20.064 --> 00:31:22.566
You know I gotta do it now or never.

00:31:22.566 --> 00:31:26.789
So I yes, I decided to adopt from China.

00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:27.371
I can't remember.

00:31:27.371 --> 00:31:31.023
Maybe it took a year and a half to do all the paperwork and that was all.

00:31:31.023 --> 00:31:32.942
My friends are shocked because I'm the most.

00:31:32.942 --> 00:31:34.387
I don't know.

00:31:34.387 --> 00:31:37.468
I'm so discompobulated, I'm all over the place.

00:31:37.468 --> 00:31:40.942
So the fact that I could fill that paperwork out, so did that.

00:31:40.942 --> 00:31:49.464
And then what was helpful was I really included everyone in the newsroom in the whole process, so they knew what was happening.

00:31:49.464 --> 00:31:58.087
China, when they match you with a child, they just send you an email picture of the person, of the little one, and that's it basically.

00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:05.268
So that day and you never know when it's gonna happen until they call you and say, hey, we're gonna send you an email.

00:32:05.268 --> 00:32:19.404
And so we had our whole newsroom gather around the computer and I said to myself, no matter what I think, when this child pops up, I mean I just have to look happy because I got all these people here.

00:32:20.903 --> 00:32:24.365
So I pushed the button and you know she was very strange looking.

00:32:24.365 --> 00:32:38.690
I always say she looked like a Michelin man with a black toupee on her head, because what they do is they dress the little kids up like with so many sweaters and they're usually on some sort of like a fun bicycle or something.

00:32:38.690 --> 00:32:40.444
She looked really funny.

00:32:40.444 --> 00:32:45.571
But it was amazing to share that with my friends at work.

00:32:45.571 --> 00:32:50.551
And then I didn't change much in my life.

00:32:50.551 --> 00:32:58.819
I always had the idea she's just gonna be incorporated into my life, I'm not gonna change things for her life, and I really did that.

00:32:58.819 --> 00:33:02.269
I mean, I do a lot of charity events where I MC.

00:33:02.269 --> 00:33:11.263
I always brought her with me and when she was little she would come on stage and I'd put her up to the microphone and tell her to please try to quiet the people, because if you have a kid, do it.

00:33:11.263 --> 00:33:12.166
They're gonna be quiet.

00:33:12.186 --> 00:33:12.488
Of course.

00:33:14.121 --> 00:33:16.779
And, as far as you know, I've had most of my career.

00:33:16.779 --> 00:33:25.946
I had to wake up at like three in the morning, sometimes double shifts on that shift, and so she would come to the newsroom and she would be with me throughout the day.

00:33:25.946 --> 00:33:28.607
It was on the weekend, so it wasn't bothering anybody.

00:33:28.607 --> 00:33:45.290
She'd go into the control room, she'd sleep on the couch, and she would even sleep on neighbor's couches sometimes when there's too much like, let's say, there's a lizard or a hurricane that I'm gonna be gone for you know a couple days, and she would stay at one of my friend's houses during that time.

00:33:45.290 --> 00:33:48.194
So she's really adaptable.

00:33:48.194 --> 00:33:52.185
It worked out really the way I thought I had hoped it would.

00:33:52.721 --> 00:33:56.144
Did that experience make her want to be a reporter or not?

00:33:56.224 --> 00:33:57.251
want to be a reporter.

00:33:57.251 --> 00:34:00.166
Have you done the right thing and scared her away from his life?

00:34:01.061 --> 00:34:02.839
She never wanted to be a reporter.

00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.608
She is so shy.

00:34:05.608 --> 00:34:17.547
She used to be really like to perform and everything and sing and I was afraid she would want to be a singer or an actor and the only reason I would not want her to do that is because she was really bad and she.

00:34:20.125 --> 00:34:21.047
Do you want your daughter to?

00:34:21.068 --> 00:34:21.971
listen to these podcasts.

00:34:21.971 --> 00:34:30.739
Oh, she knows, she knows all this and I just thought, you know she finds so much joy in it but oh my gosh, she's gonna face so much rejection.

00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:36.900
So then her personality kind of changed and she got really kind of shy and that's how she is now.

00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:45.635
She's in college but she was here visiting and my friends at the show they're like, oh, why don't we put Rosie on and she can bring her?

00:34:45.635 --> 00:34:50.704
You know, she has like this little service dog she's trying to help train and then her roommate, let's put them on.

00:34:50.704 --> 00:34:53.469
And Rosie is like, no, I don't want to do that.

00:34:53.469 --> 00:35:00.489
So, and also, you know, a lot of my career has been very, very stressful.

00:35:00.489 --> 00:35:06.387
So she has seen that and I think from that alone she would not want to go into this business.

00:35:07.141 --> 00:35:09.500
Okay, you kind of opened the door to where I want to go next.

00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:18.166
You said that the job we know the job is very, very stressful can be extremely stressful, and you've been very open about your struggle sometimes with mental health.

00:35:18.166 --> 00:35:31.987
When did you first begin experiencing this notion of I'm having problems coping, Like when you actually were very open with yourself and said I'm having problems coping with the stress, To the point where you said to yourself I need help.

00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:36.050
I never recognized I had problems with stress.

00:35:36.050 --> 00:35:45.751
I was just so used to it that you just kind of keep going and going and going and the only way that I saw there was a problem.

00:35:45.751 --> 00:35:52.039
Well, first of all, I'd go out on a very easy story and I couldn't write very fast.

00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:54.467
My mind was very fogged over.

00:35:54.467 --> 00:35:59.590
So I was like whoa, my mind is not working as it used to.

00:35:59.590 --> 00:36:08.007
And then I would be sent out on an easy story and my heart would just start beating so hard that I thought I was having a heart attack or something.

00:36:08.722 --> 00:36:13.039
And I remember, on my way to a story when I felt like that we had to go to the emergency room.

00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:15.387
Like Cameraman brought me to an emergency room.

00:36:15.387 --> 00:36:21.188
They didn't find anything and then I just went back to work again.

00:36:21.188 --> 00:36:30.632
And it wasn't until my friend who was also worked at the station, nicole Tindelia.

00:36:30.632 --> 00:36:34.525
She came up to me one day and she said are you okay?

00:36:34.525 --> 00:36:45.469
And she pulled me aside and then I just said I'm not and I just started bawling and I left work that day and I didn't come back for three months.

00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:51.431
And so this was in 2015.

00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.447
What was walking away for three months like, and what did that mean to your career?

00:36:56.447 --> 00:36:58.326
Were you worried about it at that point?

00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:00.025
Well, I was really worried about it.

00:37:00.025 --> 00:37:04.110
I was always worried about my career, especially being a single mom.

00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:05.885
It's not like I can rely on anybody.

00:37:05.885 --> 00:37:14.443
So the day that I left, what was good was Nicole had said do you want to go talk to the news director?

00:37:14.443 --> 00:37:26.192
And I said okay, and then he actually said you just have to get better and don't even think about this place, and was really very different than he normally was.

00:37:26.192 --> 00:37:27.364
So I was like, wow.

00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.445
So I went home and I started to.

00:37:31.445 --> 00:37:45.889
I went to my internist and I told him that I was having suicidal thoughts because things were just getting darker and darker, a depression which I've learned now, because I had no idea I was depressed.

00:37:45.889 --> 00:37:48.327
I had never seen a therapist or anything.

00:37:48.327 --> 00:37:57.304
It just kind of builds on itself and it gets worse and worse and it makes you feel like you're a horrible person, you're a horrible mother, You're terrible at your job.

00:37:57.304 --> 00:38:11.403
So I started thinking about suicide and I went to my internist and told him and he was like you can't, you're a mother, and immediately sent me to a psychiatrist and I was seeing her.

00:38:11.403 --> 00:38:29.168
But and that's another thing I just want to tell people I'm a real believer in therapy, but you have to find the right person for you, because this particular person kept saying, okay, fast, can we get you back to work, where that, really, to me, was one of the main triggers of all of this.

00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:39.014
So even while I was seeing this person and on medication, everything was going crazy at home.

00:38:39.014 --> 00:38:40.463
I'm, you know, my daughter.

00:38:40.463 --> 00:38:44.025
I would come home and I would just go to sleep and I was barely taking care of her.

00:38:44.025 --> 00:38:47.128
I finally told my mother, could you please come up and help me?

00:38:47.128 --> 00:39:05.887
She was in Virginia, so she came up and but things just kept getting worse and I attempted suicide and then, after that, you know, went through the process of getting better, and that really is my message.

00:39:05.887 --> 00:39:15.527
I mean, no matter how bad it feels, there is hope and somebody can help you and there's a light at the tunnel and you can feel yourself again.

00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:34.268
I know that, as an Asian, you know and you said you went to see a psychiatrist my mother happens to be a retired psychologist, so so I mean, I kind of I'm not going to say I understand where you're coming from, but I understand the you know, the need to seek professional help.

00:39:34.268 --> 00:39:50.427
And especially for you know, for my Asians, like yourself, like myself, there's a real stigma that comes along with that the notion of you know, you kind of keep those, you kind of keep those emotions to yourself and you don't let anyone else in.

00:39:50.427 --> 00:39:52.728
You're very you try to keep, you try to say private.

00:39:52.728 --> 00:39:57.652
Were you ever worried at any point about you know, being stigmatized in that sense?

00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:02.411
I was worried about being stigmatized if I ever returned to work.

00:40:02.411 --> 00:40:13.505
I was really ashamed that I had tried to take my life and I was embarrassed about the whole situation, depression and everything.

00:40:13.505 --> 00:40:27.719
So actually after, after I attempted suicide and then you know the doctors keep you in a place to just physically bring you back, then you go to a step down place.

00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:29.403
No, you go.

00:40:29.403 --> 00:40:43.561
You then I went to a psychiatric hospital actually, and then when I went after that for a few weeks and then you go to a step down place where you can go home but you're still being treated by psychologists and groups and things like that, and you know.

00:40:43.623 --> 00:40:50.626
So we were all so worried about going back to work and what would we tell the people that we actually had workshops on?

00:40:50.626 --> 00:40:51.688
Okay, how are we going to handle it?

00:40:51.688 --> 00:40:52.510
What are we going to say?

00:40:52.510 --> 00:40:54.626
How are we going to shut it down?

00:40:54.626 --> 00:41:00.507
Because none of us were going to go back and say, well, I was having, you know, mental health issues, or this happened or that happened.

00:41:00.507 --> 00:41:04.248
So that was what I was worried about was for my work, people.

00:41:06.342 --> 00:41:09.751
So I mean there's because there's two facets of that.

00:41:09.751 --> 00:41:26.030
Right, it's the people you work with and sharing that with them, but you've been open enough to share with your audience as well, and I can't imagine the bravery and the decision making that it took for you to get to the point where you wanted to share that because you knew it might help other people.

00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:33.128
So if you could talk a little bit about that, I think that's, you know, amazing of you to be that open about your recovery.

00:41:34.543 --> 00:41:34.985
Well, I was.

00:41:34.985 --> 00:41:36.128
I was super nervous.

00:41:36.128 --> 00:41:43.985
It took me let's see 15, 6, 7, 18, 19, 25 years, seven years to to be able to talk about it publicly.

00:41:43.985 --> 00:41:50.253
In fact, I didn't even tell, I still didn't tell my best friends at work.

00:41:50.253 --> 00:41:57.592
My co-anchor didn't know, my office mate didn't know what, what had happened for all these years, because I shut it all down.

00:41:57.592 --> 00:41:59.661
I was just like, oh, you know, I had a problem, I'd better now.

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:15.387
But then, when COVID hit, everyone was having issues and I felt like you know what, if there is a time to let people know that you can get better with work, now's the time.

00:42:15.387 --> 00:42:28.211
And that is why I I did a half hour special with Dana Tyler, who's a dear friend of mine, and we just sat down and we had no, she didn't say this is what I'm going to ask you.

00:42:28.211 --> 00:42:30.347
I didn't say I don't want to talk about this.

00:42:30.347 --> 00:42:39.532
We just sat down and we had a conversation on a couch and what was amazing was the station aired the whole 30 minutes.

00:42:39.532 --> 00:42:43.269
A normal story for a new station is 90 seconds.

00:42:43.269 --> 00:43:08.443
So I thought, okay, for this important issue, maybe we can get four minutes if they're going to be generous, that they were so supportive of what came out in this half hour conversation, that they aired the whole thing and from then on they've really, really supported mental health and I'm so happy about that.

00:43:10.382 --> 00:43:16.677
Did you feel that you're going through the process prior to COVID?

00:43:16.677 --> 00:43:19.706
Helped you deal with COVID, maybe better than others.

00:43:20.141 --> 00:43:35.643
Yes, I think so because I think once you've gone through the process and and you're well, and you've learned your triggers, when you know you are going down the rabbit hole again, then you can just, you know, stop things because you know, okay, this is a bad sign, I need to do this more.

00:43:35.643 --> 00:43:57.731
So, yeah, I think it definitely did prepare me for COVID and also, as far as news people, I think a lot of us were not as isolated because we still went to work, we still sometimes we anchored out of our homes, sometimes we reported with masks, so we weren't as shut away as as many people were.

00:43:58.260 --> 00:43:59.306
Do you still have triggers today?

00:44:00.260 --> 00:44:01.282
Yes, I mean I have.

00:44:01.282 --> 00:44:07.545
I have times when I'm feeling really low, and I know when I'm feeling really low.

00:44:07.545 --> 00:44:10.561
That's not normal for me and I need to.

00:44:10.561 --> 00:44:13.070
I need to write some stuff down.

00:44:13.070 --> 00:44:14.664
Journaling is very important to me.

00:44:14.664 --> 00:44:20.563
I need to make sure that I'm seeing my therapist on a regular basis and I'm keeping up with my medication.

00:44:20.563 --> 00:44:23.204
So, yes, I definitely.

00:44:23.204 --> 00:44:30.750
I think it's something that I'm likely going to be dealing with for the rest of my life, and that's okay, because it is just like any illness.

00:44:30.750 --> 00:44:32.465
It's just like any physical illness.

00:44:32.465 --> 00:44:34.621
You know you.

00:44:34.621 --> 00:44:37.068
Just you do what you need to do to keep yourself healthy.

00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:48.431
You know it's interesting having this conversation and thinking about the fact that you never know what's going on in somebody else's mind and somebody else's heart.

00:44:48.431 --> 00:44:55.153
You know you are clearly such a positive up person externally as so many people are.

00:44:55.153 --> 00:45:05.708
You just you never know what what people are dealing with, and it's sort of a nice reminder that you need to have empathy and patience and understanding with everyone, no matter what the circumstances are.

00:45:05.708 --> 00:45:34.291
You know, cindy, pivoting away from the the subject and and going forward a little bit, you know, when you look at the industry and how it's changed in the time that you have been in it, what are the some of the things that really catch your attention in terms of style, in terms of approach from you know, the young Cindy shoe, who entered the industry in 1993, versus how things are done today, in 2023.

00:45:35.420 --> 00:45:38.711
I think way back in 1993 when I came and all the legends were there.

00:45:38.711 --> 00:45:43.985
These were very seasoned reporters.

00:45:43.985 --> 00:45:51.990
You know who'd been on the street for years and years and years and you know sometimes they had very unique ways of telling their story.

00:45:51.990 --> 00:45:59.965
You know, there's only one way Pablo Guzmán can tell a story, there's only one way Vic Miles can tell a story, and they do it in their own way.

00:45:59.965 --> 00:46:01.585
I don't really think it's like that.

00:46:01.585 --> 00:46:03.204
I think it's more cookie cutter.

00:46:03.204 --> 00:46:08.387
Now, you know, we're very, it's very much.

00:46:08.387 --> 00:46:10.791
Okay, you only have 90 seconds to do it.

00:46:10.791 --> 00:46:12.987
Okay, you have to have this exact time.

00:46:12.987 --> 00:46:14.625
You need to put a stand up in there.

00:46:14.625 --> 00:46:19.070
Also, our newsroom looks completely different.

00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:36.692
I love our newsroom, but I feel that newsrooms across the country are, you know, hiring people, sometimes right out of college, in a very large market, and that can be tough because if that person starts making the mistakes that you should be making in a small market, that's going to be very difficult for them.

00:46:36.692 --> 00:46:45.420
So I always encourage people who want to go into this business Don't look at the large markets as that which you want to go right away, because you need to.

00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:48.969
You need to make your mistakes in a small market where they're not going to remember.

00:46:48.969 --> 00:46:50.963
You know they're going to expect that from you.

00:46:50.963 --> 00:46:54.427
And then there's also the whole digital thing.

00:46:54.427 --> 00:46:55.963
That's, you know, right now.

00:46:56.003 --> 00:47:03.592
As far as TV, we're just all hoping people will continue to watch TV, and most of the young people are, you know, streaming.

00:47:03.592 --> 00:47:05.065
So that's a big change too.

00:47:05.065 --> 00:47:06.262
Do you like the business?

00:47:06.262 --> 00:47:11.809
Still, I love the business right now, just because I love my show.

00:47:11.809 --> 00:47:17.820
So I think a lot of it is, you know, honestly, a lot of it is what's happening to you at that moment.

00:47:17.820 --> 00:47:19.681
I think it's a tough business.

00:47:19.681 --> 00:47:30.211
You know you can be treated well and at a certain time, but then you can see other people who are not having that experience, which I had for many years as well.

00:47:30.211 --> 00:47:33.626
So it's a tough.

00:47:33.626 --> 00:47:34.489
It's a tough business.

00:47:34.489 --> 00:47:37.137
You really have to want to do it if you're gonna do it.

00:47:37.771 --> 00:47:39.047
Okay, so on that note, what is that?

00:47:39.047 --> 00:47:46.224
One piece or two pieces of advice that you want to give to someone who wants to enter the business at this point and, you know, make a name for themselves.

00:47:46.485 --> 00:47:54.594
I would say you need to learn all the jobs because nowadays you are gonna shoot your story, you're gonna write your story and you're probably gonna edit your story.

00:47:54.594 --> 00:48:08.436
So learn all those skills, because that's expected, and I'm always very impressed when people young people come to the station Just because they'd like to do this in the future.

00:48:08.436 --> 00:48:11.090
You have to be very aggressive.

00:48:11.090 --> 00:48:19.144
You need to find like somebody, let's say somebody you really admire their work and watch them and watch them and then even reach out to them.

00:48:19.144 --> 00:48:26.610
They may not answer you but hey, you go to the next person and you you somehow Make these conversations.

00:48:26.789 --> 00:48:33.728
I mean, I've these people, they, they will call a news director and they'll say you know, I'm in town, can I just see you for a few minutes?

00:48:33.728 --> 00:48:39.010
And they may say no, or they may bring you in and give you a tour of the station and you will be remembered.

00:48:39.010 --> 00:48:44.739
So it's get your foot in the door through an internship or the lowest of the low job.

00:48:44.739 --> 00:48:46.222
Take it and never say no.

00:48:46.222 --> 00:48:50.735
And also, I know this is gonna sound cheesy, but I really kindness counts.

00:48:51.425 --> 00:49:05.351
Don't burn bridges, because people remember actually we always tell people that the one, the one seemingly overriding theme with almost anyone that we've interviewed is hey, we're not a jerk, people enjoyed working with us.

00:49:11.166 --> 00:49:12.632
Yeah and pay it forward.

00:49:12.632 --> 00:49:14.237
Pay it forward pay it.

00:49:14.659 --> 00:49:16.284
yes, yes, that's what it's all about.

00:49:16.646 --> 00:49:22.746
Well, well, cindy, you know, thank you for paying it forward with us today and and for coming on with us Now.

00:49:22.746 --> 00:49:32.018
This has been such an enlightening conversation in a lot of different ways and hopefully it's gonna bring you know some, some real meeting to some folks who listen.

00:49:32.018 --> 00:49:34.614
So so, cindy, thank you so much for joining us.

00:49:35.505 --> 00:49:37.655
Well, thank you, because look at the work you're doing.

00:49:37.655 --> 00:49:47.773
You're sharing with people how to get places and that choices there are no wrong choices you can you know that's um yeah and so thank you for what you're doing.

00:49:48.375 --> 00:49:59.159
Well, that was one of the most remarkable, real and Inspiring and in many ways, uplifting conversations that we've had on this program.

00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:01.364
Larry Shay, what are your takeaways?

00:50:01.726 --> 00:50:08.110
Yeah, I think there's so much important stuff here that we need to cover the importance of self-awareness.

00:50:08.110 --> 00:50:14.230
I mean, we're all we talk every week about chasing our dreams, right, and these could be high stress situations.

00:50:14.230 --> 00:50:29.644
So the self-awareness that she had and and just the, the feel, your feelings, you know she knew she was hitting a wall and and she hit the wall and to step back and then be courageous enough to Share that story with with the rest of the world, I think is so important.

00:50:29.644 --> 00:50:33.181
But whatever we're pursuing I mean it could be anything right.

00:50:33.181 --> 00:50:41.992
In her case it's journalism right, but it could be an architect or it could be a pilot, it could be anything you're pursuing in life to chase your dreams.

00:50:41.992 --> 00:50:43.757
Have that self-awareness.

00:50:43.757 --> 00:50:52.336
Take those moments of reflection, because what a valuable lesson she just gave us in the pursuit of her dreams and what a remarkable woman.

00:50:52.336 --> 00:50:57.644
I'm just so proud of her journey and her courageousness for sharing all of that with us.

00:50:58.086 --> 00:51:02.244
You know, her dream could have turned into a nightmare and she didn't allow that to happen.

00:51:02.925 --> 00:51:33.068
And that's the most remarkable part of this, of this interview that we just did with Cindy shoe, not to mention, you know, she's doing this at the same time that she's got she's got a young child with her as well Right, you've got to be able to hold it together and, and Understanding those moments, having that certain amount of self-awareness, to say I have to stop, I have to take a step back and I have to regroup, and then knowing that, okay, at the end of the day, yes, maybe I'll get a few slings and arrows, but I understand that at the end of it all, I'll be better for it.

00:51:33.068 --> 00:51:41.413
And that is the real tale of Cindy shoe here, that she came out the other side of the tunnel and it was, it was great, and that's all you can really say.

00:51:41.413 --> 00:51:45.724
It's an inspiring story and, once again, so you said you hit it right on the number.

00:51:45.724 --> 00:51:47.730
You have to have a certain amount of self-awareness in this.

00:51:47.730 --> 00:51:51.557
You have to understand yourself, to understand how you're gonna move forward.

00:51:52.045 --> 00:51:52.588
Absolutely.

00:51:52.588 --> 00:52:02.585
And, and going back to the the beginning of her journey, it's really remarkable that this is a Was a young woman who came to New York in the 90s I think.

00:52:02.585 --> 00:52:25.371
She said she was in her late 20s going into the biggest market on earth, going into one of the greatest stations on earth with some of the the most well-known people in the industry, and she found her way very quickly and carved out a 30-year career within this business, which is really hard to do if you're a man.

00:52:25.371 --> 00:52:33.192
It's even harder to do, I believe, if you're a woman and she is just a remarkable personality.

00:52:33.192 --> 00:52:43.099
I made a comment going into this conversation that Doing my research, seeing a lot of the work that she she has done, is just so uplifting and so interesting.

00:52:43.099 --> 00:52:44.909
You know it just.

00:52:44.909 --> 00:52:49.764
It was fun for me to get to know Cindy a little bit better through this conversation.

00:52:50.650 --> 00:52:53.605
And doing it on the biggest stage, I mean in New York City.

00:52:53.605 --> 00:52:55.349
I mean, how remarkable is that?

00:52:55.349 --> 00:52:59.637
And I just also want to reflect on, as you said, her very beginnings.

00:52:59.637 --> 00:53:13.125
She knew she was a storyteller, she knew she wanted to pursue Journalism, pursue something like this right, and that takes a special person to find those interesting stories, share them with the world and to do it on the biggest stage.

00:53:13.365 --> 00:53:22.657
And I just have the utmost respect for everything that she's done in her career, or remarkable career, it's hard to be able to connect to people instantly, and that's what Cindy is able to do.

00:53:22.657 --> 00:53:26.753
You're right, as a storyteller, she does an unbelievable job.

00:53:26.753 --> 00:53:28.306
She's able to get the facts out, but she's.

00:53:28.306 --> 00:53:42.101
I think the biggest asset that Cindy has is her ability to connect to people and Understand them on a very human level, and that is really, I think, in many cases, what separates Cindy from so many others her ability to connect.

00:53:42.322 --> 00:53:50.969
That's exactly right, and I had a chance to meet Cindy before we did this interview and to spend some time with her, and you Describe that extremely well.

00:53:50.969 --> 00:53:52.235
We connected very quickly.

00:53:52.235 --> 00:54:05.471
It was very genuine and to that point, she's even sent some other people our way For us for some future episodes, so she's taken a very genuine interest in what we're doing here, which is incredibly thoughtful.

00:54:05.471 --> 00:54:13.099
So, with that, cindy shoe, thank you for making those referrals and also for joining this episode of no wrong choices.

00:54:13.099 --> 00:54:14.684
We also thank you for joining us.

00:54:14.985 --> 00:54:26.244
If this or another journey story inspired you to think of a friend who could be a great guest, please let us know by sending us a note via the contact page of no wrong choices Dot-com, as I mentioned off the top.

00:54:26.244 --> 00:54:32.422
Please support us by following no wrong choices on your favorite podcasting platform, while giving us a five-star rating.

00:54:32.422 --> 00:54:43.690
And then, last but not Least, we encourage you to join the no wrong choices community by connecting with us on linkedin, facebook, instagram Threads and X by searching for no wrong choices.

00:54:43.690 --> 00:54:46.577
On behalf of Tushar Saxena and Larry Shay.

00:54:46.577 --> 00:54:47.778
I'm Larry Samuels.

00:54:47.778 --> 00:54:52.704
Thank you again for joining us and always remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success.

00:54:52.704 --> 00:54:55.489
We learn from every experience.