Joy Atkinson: Breaking Barriers as a Beauty Industry CEO

Transcript

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What makes a great leader and what does it take to become a CEO in the beauty business?

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We'll seek out the answers to those questions and beyond during this episode of no Wrong Choices.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by Larry Shea.

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Before we dig in today, we do have one request Please be sure to like and follow no Wrong Choices on your favorite podcast platform.

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Your support enables us to keep bringing these great stories to life.

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Now let's get started.

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This episode features the president and CEO of the cosmetics company Presperse, Joy Atkinson.

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Joy is a remarkable leader and genuinely inspiring person who has thrived within that industry for decades.

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Larry Shea is my partner in crime for this one.

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Please lead us in.

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Yeah, sometimes you know we're really lucky.

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We get to talk to these amazing people and dig into things and get access when you know other people don't.

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We get to talk to the CEO and she's amazing.

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She's a quote, a second.

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She's going to give you amazing insight on this episode.

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I think there's more advice packed into this episode than maybe any other episode we've ever done does how she gets there.

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This is an amazing episode.

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It's one of my favorites.

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And Joy she just gave us a lot of her time and she really you could hear the joy in her voice.

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Joy has joy in her voice as she speaks to this episode of no Wrong Choices, so thank you.

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Joy for the access.

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We really appreciate it Absolutely.

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It was a chance to dig into a type of company and industry that Larry and I literally knew nothing about beforehand.

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We learned a ton.

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It is so interesting and Joy is one of the most authentic and inspiring people I've come across in our journey.

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So, with no further ado, here is Joy to tell us her story.

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Now joining no Wrong Choices is Joy Atkinson.

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Joy is the president and CEO of the beauty company Presperse, an innovative firm that has the unique and hard-earned distinction of being certified as a great place to work.

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Joy, thank you so much for joining us.

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Thank you so much for having me, Larry.

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It's great to see you.

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I imagine you had a lot to do with the fact that your company Is a great place to work.

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Oh, wow, I appreciate that compliment, but I actually have to say it's our employees.

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They are the ones who get to vote on that actually, and I promise no payment came from me, no bonuses in advance.

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I didn't pay off anybody but, funny enough, that came as a part of us joining the UN Global Council and wanting to really achieve on some global metrics, actually to make our company a really good company from a sustainability and corporate social responsibility standpoint.

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And I didn't want to just, you know, walk and not have the talk or walk the talk.

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I wanted to have the statistics behind us and under this, one of the metrics is the opportunity to go out and test your corporation as a great place to work.

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So I was a little like when they suggested it.

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I thought, should I really do this?

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Ok, well, you know, it's a metric and we can set a bar and see how we do.

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And I was really scared.

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It's about 30 questions completely open-ended for employees to answer, and I was so excited the first.

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I'd been in job for about a year and then we did this, and so the first time out we got a score of 86 and, and there's so five really key questions around, things like would you recommend your friend to work here?

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Wow.

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Yeah, would you, if you had the choice to leave your job and go to another job, if maybe money wasn't so much a factor, would you want to leave?

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So really deep questions like that.

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And the first year, out of the employees we got 86%, and then this year we had 93% participation of all of our employees and we got a score on those five important questions out of the 35 of 100%.

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That's amazing.

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Yeah, that puts us in the Fortune 100 of small to medium companies and I was thrilled.

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But I have to give the credit to them.

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They're the ones because I also feel like I work at a great place, so I have to give the credit to them.

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Well, as somebody who worked at Dish Network for a period of time where we ranked last, I believe, year in and year out, for employee satisfaction, I greatly respect and admire, and perhaps am a little jealous of the circumstances and environment that you have created.

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Oh, thanks so much.

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So Joy with that set the stage for us in terms of what Presperse is, and I hope that I'm saying the name correctly.

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You are saying it correctly.

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And what you do there.

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Yeah, so the name presperse is a chemical.

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It's kind of derived from a chemical word, which is predispersion, which is something that many chemists bench chemists have to do.

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When they're incorporating a powder base into a liquid, they have to predispers that powder into something and then put it into the base that they might be working with.

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And the Blacks who started this company over 50 years ago, they were good friends with the Lauders.

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Yeah, that name is familiar.

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They had an in.

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Exactly.

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Apparently, jeanette Black and Evelyn excuse me, estee Lauder herself were friendly, and so Estee said hey, your husband's a chemist and we could buy from you guys if you guys have some cool chemistry.

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And so that's how this whole thing started in New Jersey, in Somerset, new Jersey, many, many years ago, and I joined the company four years ago as president and CEO.

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So I am I mean, I'm thrilled.

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I always wanted, had in my sights for my career, to be a president and a CEO and now I finally have that job.

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And I have to say I admire all the past president and CEOs who I was highly critical of.

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So now I'm like, know what goes around comes around yeah, so this is the other larry joy.

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So nice to meet you.

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Um, you know, I never thought about the the actual substances that make up beauty products.

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It's, it's a fascinating field.

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I mean, I don't even know what we're talking about.

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Is it oils, plants, powders, like?

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Is it expensive?

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Is it rare, like?

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I think a good place to hit this is right now, while we're on this, so tell us a little bit about what these actual things are.

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Sure.

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And so to your question is it all of those things it actually is?

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So, at Presperse we have over 450 different raw materials and if you look on the back of anything your mints, care products, products that you might be using shampoos, hair conditioners you'll see those list of all those materials and what's called inky terms, which is basically is an ingredient nomenclature.

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So those are words that, depending doesn't matter who manufactures them, those terms all have to be the same, and then there might be some items on there that are specific to those particular brands, and typically those are all spelled out.

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Sometimes they're really complicated, but the reality is we're all chemicals, even us, and so, even though that word chemical or chemistry is scary sometimes, once you start understanding even what humans are made of, it's kind of all understandable.

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So we supply materials that are in the back of those packages and mainly we focus on cosmetics.

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So we do personal care, which means things from, say, your neck down, but we do a lot of beauty, so a lot of color, a lip, we do really wonderful active materials that hopefully keep us younger, and so we work on all kinds of things.

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But we also do sun care, body lotions, facial lotions and we're in hair care now, but we're always staying on top, top of the materials, in the forefront of the materials because they do get regulated out.

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Some of them and some of sometimes consumers just like think sulfates.

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You've heard of sulfate free shampoo.

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Nothing really necessarily wrong with sulfates, but consumers who may be like me.

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I don't want to do the whole wicked hair toss, but there you go.

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At least you can as I rub my shiny head.

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He's follicly challenged.

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I was working on that with my daughter.

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She's 21 and she was like laughing at me, really, mom.

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Anyway, so sulfates might dull our colored hair, so you might want to use sulfate-free hair.

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But anyway that's just an example.

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So that's what we supply.

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We supply those raw materials, but there are a few competitors in our industry, but we have exclusive materials.

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Many of our materials come from overseas.

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They might come from Japan you hear of J-Beauty or Korea you hear of K-beauty, or Korea, you hear of K-beauty.

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Some of them come from Europe, from France, from all over the world.

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But we go out and seek for those really wonderful, beautiful, exclusive materials that can go into skincare products and color products.

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Super cool.

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That's fascinating and a question that neither of us have ever asked before, so thank you for that.

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Now let's make this about you.

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So, joy, we want to dig into your journey and how you got to the point where you are now running this amazing company.

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So take us back to the beginning.

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Who was Joy when she was younger?

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Were you organizing the kids on the playground, like?

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Who were you when you were a kid?

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And just tell us a little bit about yourself.

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So first off, I have to shout out to my folks I have incredible parents.

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My dad was an executive with the railroad and my mother was a ballerina in New York City.

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Oh, wow, yeah, how about that?

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So I come from a very numbers and disciplined background completely.

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So you merge numbers, you merge discipline together and voila.

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And creativity too.

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Yeah, yeah, creativity Exactly, I have to say.

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And my daughter's a ballerina, but it did skip a generation.

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But there's a funny story tied to that.

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So my mom, she did try to coerce me and force me to become a ballerina.

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So from a very early age I was taken off to her ballet classes and she was teaching us not really ballet, but in first grade I think.

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She told me the story.

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She was teaching us how to do the hula.

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She told me the story.

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She was teaching us how to do the hula and then all of a sudden half the class was missing and my mom was like where'd everybody go?

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And she has to teach her.

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And apparently I was teaching my own hula class in girls' bathrooms, oh geez.

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So I think leadership skills maybe came out there and my mother obviously got very upset with me because clearly, I had no idea what I was doing.

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That is very funny.

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It wasn't going to be a ballerina.

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What was the dream?

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What did you want to be when you were?

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Did you have a dream when you were that age?

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Some people don't.

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So when I was really young, my uncle was an attorney and I was just.

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I thought he was the coolest guy because I would listen to those conversations at the dinner table when they think you're not listening and I was like, wow, that is so fascinating, I think I want to do that.

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As I got older, I kind of started changing my mind and at 16, I worked in a bank as a proof operator, if you can believe this.

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So I really wanted to redecorate my bedroom.

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So I got a job where I could make some money and proof operators we, back in the dinosaur era, we put those little magnetic ink numbers at the bottom of checks, those things that people used to write.

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Crazy, but I made great money at the bank.

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So then of course, I wanted to be Jamie Diamond.

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Although I didn't know who Jamie Diamond was, I said I wanted to do that.

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I wanted to be the big boss of banks.

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I graduated from Georgia State University with a degree in business and with the goal of thinking.

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I worked all through college at the bank and wanted to do that.

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Unfortunately and this does show my age a little bit but when I graduated and I went back to that bank and I said, hey, I'm here, I have my degree, I'm ready to go management training program.

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And I said I want to be in corporate lending.

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And they were like, nope, we're putting you in the branches.

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And when I couldn't get them, I was like why?

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And he said because we don't have women in those jobs.

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Oh, wow, wow.

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Can you?

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imagine.

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But here's me.

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I go now and I'm from the South, accent a little bit.

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But I said now, if you don't give me the job that I want, I'm going to get right up out of this chair and take my talents elsewhere.

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You know what he?

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Said Good for you no, he said you do what you got to do.

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Wow.

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So off I went, panic stricken that I had to go home and face my folks and say had a job offer and I walked out.

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And so I went and got a job in a department store at Christmas time and I could not believe that people were getting paid to have that much fun.

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So that began my journey into cosmetics and fragrances and department stores and understanding consumers, and that's how it all started.

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I need to dig into that for a second.

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Yeah, sure, the guy who said that to you.

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What did that plant inside of you and how did that direct you going forward?

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Well, I did grow up with a brother who was a little bit older, who got to do everything, and I, because I was a girl in a very conservative Southern family, was told, like you know, you need to be in at 10 o'clock, yeah.

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So I think funny enough having an older brother who kind of had free reign and he's wonderful, love him, he's great and we're still very close.

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But I think I was a little bit like that's just not fair, and so I think I was always kind of looking at what was fair and a little bit righteous, probably for a youngster, and saying that's not right, that's not fair, I should be allowed to do anything that a guy can do.

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So I think that's might been where the seed was planted.

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And when he told me I couldn't do that, of course that just made me like, oh yeah, watch.

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This Took me a while, but I will say funny story, not to go back.

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But my university, georgia State University, honored me, which I was so surprised and thankful, but as one of their outstanding graduates, and I went back to meet the dean of the business school and it was in the same building in Atlanta, georgia, where that guy told me Wow, what a poetic moment, that's amazing.

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I was shocked.

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I was like are you kidding me?

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Georgia State had bought that bank building.

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Yeah, that's amazing.

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I'm hearing so many things that I because I want to define this about your childhood.

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It sounds like your family was super supportive, um, and it sounds like you were self-motivated in a lot of ways, but that they also kind of pushed you to achieve in a lot of regards.

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Is that, is that accurate about your childhood?

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It sure is, and I think a lot of that has to come from, uh, probably my mom.

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Um, she grew up in, up in Virginia, in Portsmouth, virginia, a small town outside of Virginia Beach really, and to achieve the heights of dancing in New York City at the School of American Ballet, at the time of Balanchine, you know, and she took lessons from Balanchine as part of the School of American Ballet.

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She just really planted in me you can do anything that you can really me.

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You can do anything that you can really put, you can dream it, you can achieve it.

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You know that poster we all see so much.

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I think the biggest, funniest thing, though, the joke was, you know, I think my mom and dad both hoped that I would be this aspiring little ballerina, but I but you know, god gave him a gift or a joke.

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I'd say and say like no, but we're going to put your dad's mathematical brain in that, and I wanted nothing to do with ballet.

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I was like this is the most boring.

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I mean I really I got, I have to say.

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My mother finally ultimately kicked me out of ballet class for making fun of her when she was like doing some of her ballet routines.

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Oh really it's.

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That is so funny.

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It's super ironic that you know people who are, you know, want to be an artist or dancer or singer.

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Like the parents, like no, you're going to be in the business world and you are exactly the opposite.

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That is astounding.

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Yeah, it was funny.

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I mean we did love music.

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We still love to dance.

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We do something now called the Shag.

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We're in South Carolina, not that Shag, it's a fun kind of swing dance, but we still love doing all that together.

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Yeah.

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And my folks.

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I've got a blessing.

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There's still a lot.

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My dad's 91.

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My mom's 88.

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And they're still swinging and having a great time.

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That's incredible.

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We didn't talk about this aspect of it, but it sounds like you were a good student, like you liked school, you liked to achieve and you were a good student.

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I'd say I was an above average student.

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I was probably stubborn, the things that I didn't want to learn I didn't really focus on, and and I remember taking a class even in university and one of my professors asked me to stay after class and she told me how disappointed she was in my performance.

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And I remember, like looking at her, thinking, and finally I told her I said you know what I I'm really, I'm in an overload situation.

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I'm working probably too many hours right now because the holidays and I made a conscious decision to take a B in this class and she was not happy about that.

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She really got mad at me.

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But I think that I was one of those.

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I think, yeah, the classes I loved.

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I did surprisingly well in calculus and I don't know how bad happened.

00:18:25.647 --> 00:18:27.171
Yeah, how does that happen for anyone?

00:18:27.917 --> 00:18:28.180
I don't know.

00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:33.026
I think I had a great teacher, quite frankly, but yeah, so I'd say I was okay.

00:18:33.026 --> 00:18:35.347
I wasn't a straight A.

00:18:35.347 --> 00:18:39.269
I mean I would have never been a professorial candidate, for example.

00:18:39.269 --> 00:18:47.563
Yeah, and my daughter now I look at her and she's Phi Beta Kappa at USC and I mean I'm good for her.

00:18:47.563 --> 00:18:48.926
Go girl.

00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:51.292
But also a ballerina.

00:18:51.292 --> 00:18:52.643
Skip the generation.

00:18:53.527 --> 00:18:53.867
It is.

00:18:54.780 --> 00:18:58.608
So let's move forward to Georgia State.

00:18:58.608 --> 00:19:00.333
You're coming out of school.

00:19:00.333 --> 00:19:06.750
What was your vision as you stepped off of campus into the real world?

00:19:06.750 --> 00:19:09.963
Where did you see yourself going 20 years down the road?

00:19:10.984 --> 00:19:22.308
I really loved leadership and so I really and I did have this really I would say drive to be the best.

00:19:22.308 --> 00:19:34.303
And again, I think maybe that has a lot to do with my mom, her influence, because ballerinas are incredibly disciplined and they're always striving for something they probably will never achieve.

00:19:34.303 --> 00:19:53.753
And I always would look at people around me and say, gee, who is the best at this job, whatever job it might have been, and then I would try to understand how they got there and what could I possibly do to get there myself or to maybe even improve it a little bit.

00:19:53.753 --> 00:20:01.261
I made a lot of mistakes along the way, definitely had a lot of bosses yell at me, but I say yell at me because back then they could, but then I had.

00:20:01.261 --> 00:20:04.163
I remember, yeah, and I say yell at me because back then they could, but then I had.

00:20:04.163 --> 00:20:12.352
I remember, yeah, one store manager just screaming at me about leaving a ballroom, which was his way of saying put a T-bar in the middle of this open space.

00:20:12.811 --> 00:20:17.656
Oh geez, I had one boss throw a book at me, so I think I'm from a similar generation.

00:20:18.921 --> 00:20:22.106
Yeah, right, but it was, yeah.

00:20:22.106 --> 00:20:37.551
I think I just always wanted to say, well, okay, so what does the best look like here, and can I achieve that, and could I maybe even do a little bit better, or how could I creatively bring something in a dynamic that will be unexpected?

00:20:37.551 --> 00:20:42.291
Um, and I would get noticed, and I don't think it was my intent.

00:20:42.291 --> 00:20:44.943
I don't remember thinking to myself, I just want to be noticed.

00:20:44.943 --> 00:20:52.515
I think it was just kind of drive for doing things, a drive for excellence, quite frankly, doing things in really an outstanding way.

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:58.267
Did you realize at that time that you were kind of cultivating your leadership style?

00:20:58.267 --> 00:21:01.491
And what exactly would you say your leadership style is?

00:21:02.032 --> 00:21:03.434
So I have to.

00:21:03.434 --> 00:21:04.316
I'll confess.

00:21:04.316 --> 00:21:08.303
When I was in high school, my class voted me class president.

00:21:09.244 --> 00:21:09.526
Leader.

00:21:09.726 --> 00:21:18.385
I had a lot yeah, a lot of leadership lessons where I totally screwed up and thought to myself, well, that's not really good.

00:21:18.385 --> 00:21:24.789
And I had some really good close friends who would tell me that you know, that wasn't a cool thing to do.

00:21:24.789 --> 00:21:28.551
And I had some teachers who were really wonderful and would encourage me.

00:21:28.551 --> 00:21:35.891
And I think that's where I started understanding that collaboration with others and also achieving it.

00:21:35.891 --> 00:21:51.809
I think I really learned it wasn't about me as a leader, it was about other people really bringing their best, and together we created something where we could collectively bring our best, and so it was about inspiring others to bring their best.

00:21:51.809 --> 00:22:02.829
And then, when I went into that department store environment when I was really young and I had a group of 15, 20 people working for me, here I was, I was a kid.

00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:22.351
I was 23, 24 years old and the people who worked in that department store environment very diverse in their age most of them were two and three times older than I was and I had to lead them, I had to bring the best out of them and it certainly wasn't going to be from demanding anyone respect to me.

00:22:22.351 --> 00:22:28.789
I really had to earn that respect and I think I realized that and continued to bring that throughout my entire career.

00:22:28.789 --> 00:22:32.061
And also I just I have to say I love to have fun.

00:22:32.061 --> 00:22:34.087
I love to have fun at work.

00:22:34.087 --> 00:22:39.824
So I like to see people and I like to be around happy people who are enjoying themselves.

00:22:39.824 --> 00:22:43.114
So I try to create that environment of fun.

00:22:43.255 --> 00:22:56.684
And you know, and every problem can be solved and we can bring it together and you know, we'll, just, we'll get it done somehow, not to say that there aren't times when I'm, you know, I'm like, gee, this mountain is hard to climb, how are we going to get this done?

00:22:56.684 --> 00:23:05.990
And now I have to check myself right in this leadership position that I'm in, I really have to watch my you know how happy.

00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:17.241
I have to be happy, I have to be positive, but also have to be authentic, and when there's problems, I have to bring it out like hey guys, you know we're facing a storm now, but we're going to get through the storm together.

00:23:17.602 --> 00:23:18.584
So that's great.

00:23:18.584 --> 00:23:29.973
So when we look at your journey you're leading people at the department store it feels like that might have been your first formal management role, so to speak.

00:23:29.973 --> 00:23:34.267
How did your career develop so you learned from that experience?

00:23:34.267 --> 00:23:40.005
Eventually, you started to get your eye on the beauty industry because you spent a lot of time in it.

00:23:40.005 --> 00:23:45.383
Talk to us a little bit about the progression from the department store forward.

00:23:46.223 --> 00:24:00.175
Sure, okay, and you'll laugh, but I was a buyer of men's fragrances and cosmetic accessories for a division of federated department stores, so I was buying for 35 stores and like 80 different brands.

00:24:00.175 --> 00:24:04.887
Each brand had, you know, 10 SKUs and there was no exception, and how old were you?

00:24:04.948 --> 00:24:05.569
I'm sorry to interrupt.

00:24:05.569 --> 00:24:06.634
How old were you at this time?

00:24:06.905 --> 00:24:09.384
I was probably 26, 26 years old.

00:24:09.404 --> 00:24:12.650
Wow, that's a big job for a 26 years old, that's a big job for a 26-year-old.

00:24:12.670 --> 00:24:27.557
I know and I remember the guys I say that the vice presidents from New York City would come down and I mean I was just this little Southern kid and my bosses who were from iMagnons and from Bloomingdale's and Saks Fifth Avenue.

00:24:27.557 --> 00:24:28.720
They are running riches.

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.567
I would be.

00:24:30.567 --> 00:24:35.249
At first I was really afraid Like, oh my gosh, these guys are going to be negotiating with me.

00:24:35.249 --> 00:24:35.770
What am I going to do?

00:24:35.770 --> 00:24:37.856
And what they told me Joy, just stick to your numbers.

00:24:37.856 --> 00:24:41.291
You have all your spreadsheets, you know what you're doing.

00:24:41.291 --> 00:24:45.347
If you feel intimidated, look down at your numbers.

00:24:45.347 --> 00:24:46.570
Stick to your numbers.

00:24:46.570 --> 00:24:48.335
Can I tell you I still do that today.

00:24:48.335 --> 00:24:55.527
Wow, I will look down when I get in front of a board and I'm like, okay, you know what you're doing, stick to your numbers.

00:24:55.527 --> 00:24:58.832
It still works.

00:25:00.755 --> 00:25:06.088
But I wasn't getting paid much money and I always saw the person on the other side of the desk.

00:25:06.088 --> 00:25:15.394
They were driving a nicer car, probably paying their bills on time, and they were always much better dressed and that kind of made me question what am I doing here?

00:25:15.394 --> 00:25:26.886
And I got an opportunity to actually interview for a job and one of the young women who was sitting on the other side of the desk for me.

00:25:26.886 --> 00:25:28.050
She's the one who encouraged me.

00:25:28.050 --> 00:25:28.712
She said you know what?

00:25:28.712 --> 00:25:29.726
You should apply for this job.

00:25:29.726 --> 00:25:31.230
You'll be my boss, but that's okay.

00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:34.116
And I was like they're never going to give me that job.

00:25:34.116 --> 00:25:46.396
So what I did is I put together a portfolio of how I would approach the job if I were given it, and it was a complete strategic portfolio because I knew the job from the other side.

00:25:46.596 --> 00:25:46.758
Yeah.

00:25:47.444 --> 00:26:02.827
And so when I sat down for the interview I had a complete strategic book done for the guy who was interviewing me and of course he said at the end of like wow, because I had basically did a strategic plan for 35 stores in his, in his group, he said can I keep this?

00:26:02.827 --> 00:26:04.394
And I was like no, only if you hire me.

00:26:04.394 --> 00:26:07.973
And then he said well, how much is that going to cost me?

00:26:07.973 --> 00:26:11.234
And I was like, oh, and I think number.

00:26:12.046 --> 00:26:17.834
And he goes John, and I threw out the number and he goes done and I was like, oh, I didn't have you, so you didn't have the market intelligence going into the room.

00:26:20.665 --> 00:26:23.174
Yeah, it did turn out to be a great job.

00:26:23.174 --> 00:26:37.759
And then what happened was, from that point on, the bosses the people who I worked for could see the quality of my work and then they became really, I would say, mentors to me and also sponsors.

00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.433
So I love to tell people the difference between that.

00:26:40.433 --> 00:26:53.428
A mentor is someone who really has nothing invested in your success other than wanting to see you succeed just because they believe in you, they see your potential and they're in there coaching you.

00:26:53.428 --> 00:26:58.647
And then a sponsor is someone who actually is going to benefit from your success.

00:26:58.647 --> 00:27:09.096
And so I, along the way, had these sponsors, mentors but I would say every job I got after that was probably a sponsor, somebody who said you know what?

00:27:09.096 --> 00:27:16.898
I want that person to be coming into my group because I think that person has potential and can add value and is going to make me, the boss, look good.

00:27:17.684 --> 00:27:34.451
And another thing I think I learned early on from one of my other bosses really was the more I helped her look great in my role, the better she did, and I did well in doing that.

00:27:34.451 --> 00:27:46.452
So I encourage young people that I mentor for directly like think about the person that you're working for directly, and what obstacles do they need to overcome and how can you help them?

00:27:46.452 --> 00:27:48.778
How can you make their load lighter?

00:27:48.778 --> 00:27:51.790
What can you do to help them look great?

00:27:51.790 --> 00:28:07.105
Because when you look great, if these are really good people I mean there are some selfish people in the world, we have to be careful of them but if they're really great people, they're going to appreciate that from you and they're going to bring you along with them or they're going to sponsor you for maybe the next job when your name comes up.

00:28:07.546 --> 00:28:13.535
I love that the distinction between mentors and sponsors you just literally defined.

00:28:13.535 --> 00:28:17.000
Preparation plus opportunity equals success.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.796
I mean I love that you just spelled that whole thing out for us.

00:28:20.796 --> 00:28:26.538
Would you say that that first job, where you prepared, you know the door cracks open.

00:28:26.538 --> 00:28:30.051
You got to be ready to run through it right, and so it did for you in that moment.

00:28:43.951 --> 00:28:45.093
Would you say that's your biggest break?

00:28:45.093 --> 00:28:46.173
And so it did for you.

00:28:46.173 --> 00:28:46.973
In that moment.

00:28:46.973 --> 00:28:48.875
Would you say that's your biggest break.

00:28:48.875 --> 00:28:52.576
That first gig right there, like jumping, was in the Southeast part of the United States.

00:28:52.576 --> 00:29:01.040
You know, here I am working in Rich's department store, which is now Mace, but it gave me exposure, yes, in an international company.

00:29:01.040 --> 00:29:04.682
So in fact, what happened was Japanese ended up buying.

00:29:07.065 --> 00:29:15.376
Japanese conglomerate ended up buying that company because they wanted to expand here in the United States and the Japanese leader of the company that acquired them.

00:29:15.376 --> 00:29:31.868
He met me and started asking questions about my background and he was looking for someone who had an understanding of retail and product development and how products worked in the cosmetic and personal care industry.

00:29:31.868 --> 00:29:46.134
I probably was not qualified at all, but from that job that I had, I then was offered a job to do Japanese product development and bring those products from Japan into the United States.

00:29:46.134 --> 00:29:51.856
Now, funny story about that I actually, when I was offered that job, I turned it down because I was like are they crazy?

00:29:51.856 --> 00:29:52.298
I don't know anything.

00:29:52.298 --> 00:29:54.224
First of all, I turned it down because I was like are they crazy, I don't know anything.

00:29:54.224 --> 00:29:56.132
First of all, I don't know anything about Japanese products.

00:29:56.132 --> 00:30:02.536
I would not call myself a marketer, so clearly they must have misunderstood.

00:30:04.166 --> 00:30:10.167
But actually told my boss no, and my boss was so funny at the time he told me he goes.

00:30:10.167 --> 00:30:10.971
Joy, you don't understand.

00:30:10.971 --> 00:30:18.638
The chairman of the company has offered you a job and it is a promotion.

00:30:18.638 --> 00:30:21.132
You don't have a choice.

00:30:23.489 --> 00:30:31.113
I was like oh good, and as my father taught me a long time ago never talk past the close, Stop talking and move on.

00:30:32.786 --> 00:30:35.094
Yeah, I think I learned that lesson late in life.

00:30:36.806 --> 00:30:38.670
What did you learn from that experience?

00:30:38.670 --> 00:30:41.095
Working for a Japanese company?

00:30:41.095 --> 00:30:44.328
I have my MBA, so I'm going to spit out a couple of terms.

00:30:44.328 --> 00:30:57.299
With Lean, six Sigma and efficiency and everything else, I imagine working for Kaizen exactly working for that type of a company must have given you all kinds of new tools that you use going forward.

00:30:57.345 --> 00:31:04.086
Yes, incredibly, it was understanding how the world works differently, you know.

00:31:04.086 --> 00:31:07.673
So that is the company that said to me you need to have a passport.

00:31:07.673 --> 00:31:27.394
I was like, oh okay, because you're going to be going back and forth from Japan, from Tokyo, to the United States, bringing back Japanese products, interpreting them for the US market and, interestingly enough, they these were bath products, bath additives and then bringing them back to the United States.

00:31:27.394 --> 00:31:38.414
Big problem in the United States Back then in the 90s, we didn't take baths, that's right, we took showers, so it's like all right now, what do I do?

00:31:39.566 --> 00:31:43.172
So the people who were soaking, which was the methodology used in Japan?

00:31:43.172 --> 00:31:51.755
Of course, the onsen, the hot mineral springs, bring those back into the United States, and where we soak is in a jacuzzi, a hot tub.

00:31:52.096 --> 00:31:52.297
Right.

00:31:53.065 --> 00:31:56.115
So that's where we brought the product into the pool and spa industry.

00:31:56.115 --> 00:31:59.654
And again, let's go back to the fact that I like to have fun.

00:31:59.654 --> 00:32:00.825
And where were those meetings?

00:32:00.825 --> 00:32:04.575
All the trade shows for the pool and spa industry are in Vegas.

00:32:04.955 --> 00:32:05.317
Oh boy.

00:32:07.724 --> 00:32:09.231
Vegas hot tub.

00:32:09.231 --> 00:32:11.568
And so what did I do for promotion?

00:32:11.568 --> 00:32:16.218
I went and hired showgirls and had them dress in string bikinis and lay around the hot tub.

00:32:17.924 --> 00:32:18.413
I sold a lot of products.

00:32:18.413 --> 00:32:19.045
I was thinking you might.

00:32:19.788 --> 00:32:20.516
Cool as spa guys.

00:32:21.846 --> 00:32:22.930
Yes, you did.

00:32:22.930 --> 00:32:26.348
That's smart At that point, are you?

00:32:26.348 --> 00:32:28.194
You know what's the learning curve there?

00:32:28.194 --> 00:32:30.669
I mean because you're talking about an international yeah.

00:32:30.669 --> 00:32:38.150
I mean, like, how did you get your sea legs and, and you know, deal with the travel and the communication and the business aspect of it?

00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:39.272
I mean, you are in charge.

00:32:39.272 --> 00:32:40.135
How did you deal with that?

00:32:40.585 --> 00:32:40.765
Yes.

00:32:40.765 --> 00:32:43.109
So, first off, the cultural difference.

00:32:43.109 --> 00:32:53.259
And so one of the things I think that growing up in the Southern part of the United States very conservative family was the respect for people, you know, just in general.

00:32:53.259 --> 00:33:05.092
So I was very respectful, very quiet, believe it or not, and not, you know, speaking until I was spoken to, and it was also the Japanese culture.

00:33:05.092 --> 00:33:06.275
It was very respectful.

00:33:06.275 --> 00:33:29.529
But what they called me Joy-san, and they still do, and I was here, I was, you know, early thirties and I would listen and I actually I was in so many meetings where they were speaking Japanese and I actually started picking up the Japanese language and that was great until I corrected someone who said something not quite on point in one of the meetings.

00:33:29.529 --> 00:33:32.816
They were speaking Japanese and they realized they understood what I was saying.

00:33:32.816 --> 00:33:37.182
They were like, wow, so yeah not so many.

00:33:37.222 --> 00:33:57.058
I wasn't invited to so many meetings after that, only the part where there was English was being spoken, but it what it did is gave me an incredible appreciation for international business, for being for listening skills, for understanding cultural differences and really just being respectful in general.

00:33:57.285 --> 00:34:05.636
So I think in the South we're very respectful of our elders and then we share that with the Japanese culture, also very respectful of the elders.

00:34:06.305 --> 00:34:34.106
So that was, I would say, serendipitous for me and I just had I had great sponsorship from from those jobs, which then led me into interviewing for another job, an international job, working for Furmanish, which is now DSM Furmanish, a Swiss based company, and interviewing with Patrick Furmanish, who of course, was very interested in my international business and what I was doing.

00:34:34.106 --> 00:35:12.641
And even though it wasn't we were developing product, there was adjacencies in fragrance and so I was able to move into the fragrance development side of the business and working for Furmanish, which has been a large part of my career and incredibly amazing, because there one of my main clients was Avon and Avon at the time was in 147 countries around the world and my job was to make sure that Avon was happy with Feminish around the world and that the Feminish organization understood how to service Avon at the time that was known as the company for women.

00:35:12.641 --> 00:35:20.336
So I really had an amazing career working with those two companies in an international job.

00:35:20.864 --> 00:35:22.809
I love this, so let's dig into the.

00:35:22.809 --> 00:35:25.956
Being a woman in a male dominated industry.

00:35:25.956 --> 00:35:41.378
When you went to Japan and you go to all these international places, did you feel a difference in the way they treated you compared to the United States, or was it kind of, across the board, like men will be men and I'm going to have to fight for my place in this world?

00:35:42.385 --> 00:35:44.233
I would say definitely could see a difference.

00:35:44.233 --> 00:35:54.280
The good news is, I was always treated with great respect because I was probably I was always the first, believe it or not, which was strange.

00:35:54.766 --> 00:36:15.565
I was even the first sales lady on Patrick Furmanish's team, um, in that international sales job on the fragrance, in the fragrance industry, even though I was assigned to companies where they were women led and when I had Avon in the beginning they were not women led, uh, I Andrea Jung came in later, but everyone was very, very respectful.

00:36:15.565 --> 00:36:22.699
Did I see that my, maybe aspirations of leading an organization were very far away?

00:36:22.699 --> 00:36:23.666
Absolutely.

00:36:23.666 --> 00:36:38.260
But I would say I was satisfied in leading the organizations and the groups that I was responsible for and again, like I did when I was younger, it was always groups that I was responsible for and again, like I did when I was younger, it was always who is the best at this job and how can I be?

00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:45.775
Just, maybe even a little bit better, a little bit improved at whoever is the best?

00:36:45.775 --> 00:36:46.902
I even did that.

00:36:46.902 --> 00:36:57.949
I did that everywhere Out of really just curiosity what does the best look like?

00:36:57.949 --> 00:36:59.876
And so I think that helped me quite a bit and it didn't become such a gender issue.

00:36:59.896 --> 00:37:01.822
Have I been told many times because of my sex, that I wasn't going to have an opportunity?

00:37:01.822 --> 00:37:02.083
Or maybe did.

00:37:02.083 --> 00:37:16.476
I feel that, yes, but I think I had that fight in me that said well, you know, I'm just going to prove that I'm deserving of this job and I'm just going to keep working hard and I'm going to ignore that and I'm going to keep plowing away, and it's not been easy.

00:37:16.476 --> 00:37:26.972
There's times, you know, and there have been some people along the route, who have said to me you know, I don't believe in you and I don't think you can do this and I don't understand what all the hype is.

00:37:26.972 --> 00:37:28.516

Joy Atkinson: Breaking Barriers as a Beauty Industry CEO

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