Oct. 9, 2023

Resilience and Reinvention: Curtis Conway's Journey Beyond the Gridiron (Part 2)

Resilience and Reinvention: Curtis Conway's Journey Beyond the Gridiron (Part 2)
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Season 3

Dive back into the world of Curtis Conway in Part 2 of our conversation, as we delve into the pressures of the NFL draft, the complex process of choosing an agent, and his meteoric rise in the league.

Beyond the game, learn how Curtis transitioned from the roots of South Central LA, balancing immense career changes with the profound role of fatherhood. Central to this narrative is his bond with Laila Ali, a relationship that speaks volumes about commitment, passion, and building a solid family foundation.  Immerse yourself in touching memories as Curtis recalls interactions with the legendary Muhammad Ali, his iconic Father-In-Law, and relive the poignant tales of their first memorable meeting.

Tune in now to explore the depths of Curtis's decision to become the family's Lead Dad, and embark on a journey of unwavering dedication, personal transformation, and the immense power of love.






To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - Curtis Conway's Career and Family

04:45 - Agent Selection and Draft Day Tips

09:51 - Navigating the Challenges of NFL Success

16:04 - Pro Football Player Life and Responsibility

23:22 - Transition to Broadcasting Career

35:00 - The Shift Towards Sports and Family

38:58 - Conway Discusses Football, Broadcasting, Ali

53:40 - Curtis' Honesty and Muhammad Ali's Impact

56:48 - Curtis Conway's Inspiring Journey and Perspective

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.706 --> 00:00:10.789
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, a podcast about the adventures of life that explores the career journeys of interesting and inspiring people.

00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:15.592
I'm Larry Samuel, soon to be joined by the other fellas Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:00:15.592 --> 00:00:26.309
For those who might be joining us for the first time and for those who haven't done this yet, please support no Wrong Choices by following us on your podcasting platform of choice and by giving us a five star rating.

00:00:26.309 --> 00:00:37.643
We also encourage you to join the conversation by connecting with us on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram, youtube and X, by searching for no Wrong Choices or by visiting our website at nowrongchoicescom.

00:00:37.643 --> 00:00:48.030
This episode is part two of our conversation with the retired NFL wide receiver, broadcaster and, as we learned in episode one, lead dad Curtis Conway.

00:00:48.030 --> 00:00:55.012
Larry, I guess, staying consistent with episode one, why don't you lead us into this conversation as well?

00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:03.953
I think it's worth repeating, though, if you haven't heard part one, go back and listen, because what we hear in part two is amazing.

00:01:04.033 --> 00:01:07.001
But part one, I mean, it's really the beginning of his journey.

00:01:07.001 --> 00:01:26.868
That acts as the framework of what we're about to go into now Candid, genuine, I think again, the thing I'm most struck with with Curtis is sometimes, as an interviewer, you ask a question and you almost can anticipate what the answer is going to be, and Curtis just never gives you that answer.

00:01:26.868 --> 00:01:48.272
He's going to speak from the heart, but what he tells you about being a professional athlete and how he became to be a professional athlete, the mentality, the finding something that you love and doing it, you know I just they're so valuable and they can actually be a part of anything you try to do in life.

00:01:48.272 --> 00:02:02.531
It doesn't have to be professional sports, as it was for Curtis, but, yeah, we're about to get into a conversation about much deeper things about family, about being a professional, about when it's time to walk away from being a professional athlete.

00:02:02.531 --> 00:02:11.450
You know these are difficult conversations, but Curtis makes them easy and he makes them accessible and it's just pure honesty and I love this conversation.

00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:16.752
So, yeah, there were a lot of eye popping and jaw dropping moments in that first part and show you're totally right.

00:02:16.752 --> 00:02:32.306
If you haven't had a chance to listen to part one, you should go back and listen to it Now I'll tell you what part two has just as many of those kinds of moments where Curtis now delves into his playing career when he was with the Bears and with the Jets and you know bumping around the league.

00:02:32.306 --> 00:02:38.024
And the one thing that I was so surprised about was, you know, his attitude, his very open attitude about.

00:02:38.024 --> 00:02:42.923
You know why are other teammates of mine not as angry as I am over losses?

00:02:42.923 --> 00:02:47.610
Or you know, what do I have to do to make sure that the guy behind me doesn't take my spot?

00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:52.290
Or how can I help the guy behind me, you know, improve without him taking my spot?

00:02:52.580 --> 00:03:05.527
You know things like this, that kind of open honesty about what's it like to be a professional athlete, the grind, so to speak and then to talk very openly and honestly about life after football, because obviously for all these guys there is life after football.

00:03:05.527 --> 00:03:29.611
So it's the transition from one, from one part of life to the next, to the next, to the next, where he goes from, you know, professional athlete to professional broadcaster, to essentially being a professional family man and just hearing those answers and the thought process it was just so refreshing to hear and you can tell that he's very, very at ease and happy with all of these choices and decisions.

00:03:29.812 --> 00:03:37.272
Absolutely, and you know, a very big theme of this conversation is family and how important family is.

00:03:37.272 --> 00:03:46.628
And interestingly, as we've mentioned before, curtis' father-in-law is Muhammad Ali and he tells a great Muhammad Ali story in this episode.

00:03:46.628 --> 00:03:47.632
So stay tuned.

00:03:47.632 --> 00:03:55.431
Here is the continuation of our conversation with Curtis Conway Curtis bringing this, I guess, back onto the path a little bit.

00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:07.051
You know, as your college career is, or as you're progressing in your college career, as you're having the success that you're having, as you start to look towards the NFL.

00:04:07.051 --> 00:04:12.012
When did you start to think about the draft and how do you start to prepare for the draft?

00:04:12.012 --> 00:04:14.181
Are you hiring an agent Like?

00:04:14.181 --> 00:04:17.310
What is that process and what is that step in your journey?

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:35.149
Great question, the biggest headache of my life, like, literally, it was the worst time between my last I would say two games in my junior, the last three games of my junior season until the day I got drafted.

00:04:35.149 --> 00:04:36.718
It was like the worst time.

00:04:36.718 --> 00:04:37.805
It should be a good time.

00:04:37.805 --> 00:04:43.511
The reason why is number one I'm a junior, I'm a true junior.

00:04:43.511 --> 00:04:44.593
Do I leave?

00:04:45.622 --> 00:04:49.285
You hear everybody say he'll be a first rounder, he'll be a top 10 pick.

00:04:49.285 --> 00:04:53.483
You hear people saying, man, he's only been playing the position a year, he needs more experience.

00:04:53.483 --> 00:04:57.870
And so you got all this stuff going on with just trying to leave school.

00:04:57.870 --> 00:05:00.747
So once I decided to leave, now you got to pick an agent.

00:05:00.747 --> 00:05:09.067
Now, picking an agent is somebody you've never seen or don't know and you're trusting them with your life, basically at this point.

00:05:09.067 --> 00:05:15.110
And so you hear everybody say you got people coming on sneaking on campus.

00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:17.192
I work for this guy, I work for this guy, I'm doing it.

00:05:17.192 --> 00:05:19.305
It was so much crap going on.

00:05:19.305 --> 00:05:28.406
It was miserable, man, because you really have to make the right decision on who's going to represent you, and you've never been in a situation before.

00:05:28.406 --> 00:05:30.423
I don't have a father.

00:05:30.423 --> 00:05:36.086
My mom was a young mom and at the time she wasn't doing well.

00:05:36.086 --> 00:05:47.379
I mean again, like my grandmother said, that I was making decisions on my own as a young man, so trying to figure out who was the best agent was so hard.

00:05:47.701 --> 00:05:49.127
How did you go through that process?

00:05:50.161 --> 00:05:54.291
Well, really, I end up trusting somebody that I knew, who knew the agent.

00:05:54.291 --> 00:05:56.047
It had nothing to do with the agent.

00:05:56.047 --> 00:05:59.543
The only reason the agent got me is because he knew the guy that I knew.

00:05:59.543 --> 00:06:00.285
And who was it?

00:06:00.285 --> 00:06:01.045
Who did you go with?

00:06:01.045 --> 00:06:02.367
I went with IMG.

00:06:02.367 --> 00:06:04.110
Okay, tom Condon.

00:06:04.629 --> 00:06:06.252
Yeah, I was an agent.

00:06:06.271 --> 00:06:08.194
Yeah, I never talked to Tom.

00:06:08.194 --> 00:06:09.336
I never saw Tom.

00:06:09.336 --> 00:06:13.269
I didn't know what Tom looked like until I actually signed my contract.

00:06:13.269 --> 00:06:17.314
Yeah, it had nothing to do with him, it was.

00:06:17.314 --> 00:06:18.019
Who do I trust?

00:06:18.019 --> 00:06:24.735
Who am I closest to in this arena that I can actually question if something goes wrong?

00:06:24.875 --> 00:06:25.937
And it was your friend.

00:06:25.937 --> 00:06:28.646
It was your friend, it wasn't really a friend of mine.

00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:40.651
It was a guy that I was around, that I knew, and in that relationship I didn't know, it wasn't like I knew this guy and he couldn't, you know, derail me.

00:06:40.651 --> 00:06:45.870
He was just the only guy that I knew of or knew that was in that environment.

00:06:45.870 --> 00:06:49.588
Everybody I knew that was family or friends, was in my neighborhood.

00:06:49.588 --> 00:06:53.189
So people in that arena, you know had no clue about.

00:06:53.189 --> 00:06:59.112
So making that decision was really really, really difficult for me to do.

00:06:59.112 --> 00:07:04.971
But that's the only reason why I even chose IMG is because of that situation.

00:07:04.971 --> 00:07:09.649
The other part of that was being drafted.

00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:19.790
I never really cared about what team I was going to go to until you start hearing all the media on the radio saying, well, the chargers going to pick him at 23.

00:07:19.790 --> 00:07:21.798
The Raiders won him because Al Davis loves me.

00:07:22.521 --> 00:07:23.524
And so in my mind.

00:07:23.524 --> 00:07:40.468
I'm like man, I'm standing in LA, the chargers throw the ball, the Raiders throw the ball and then all of a sudden you start taking these trips to these organizations you know that want to draft you and they interviewing you, going through this whole process and you know, all of a sudden you get drafted.

00:07:40.468 --> 00:07:45.848
And I got drafted by the Bears and I was like wait a minute, the Bears.

00:07:47.300 --> 00:07:50.911
I haven't really talked to them the whole time.

00:07:50.911 --> 00:07:52.887
I took a trip there and that was it.

00:07:52.887 --> 00:07:54.245
I didn't speak to nobody.

00:07:54.245 --> 00:07:56.826
My agent wasn't saying anything about it.

00:07:56.826 --> 00:08:03.112
I went there and the first thing came to my mind is the 85 Bears.

00:08:03.112 --> 00:08:04.223
Like man they throw the ball.

00:08:04.244 --> 00:08:07.564
That's right, walter H and everybody else Right.

00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:10.610
Like how are you know the Bears?

00:08:10.649 --> 00:08:11.153
like really.

00:08:12.002 --> 00:08:15.425
I couldn't get over that they don't throw the ball, why would they pick?

00:08:15.466 --> 00:08:16.447
me Crowned in pounds.

00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:19.264
Yeah, so I was, although I was happy.

00:08:19.264 --> 00:08:22.951
You know it's an ego thing, man I'm the seventh pick of the draft.

00:08:22.951 --> 00:08:25.886
I was the first receiver taken Wrong team, though.

00:08:25.886 --> 00:08:36.010
Maybe they wanted you to play quarterback, yeah probably Right, but I would have rather went later and went to a team that threw the ball.

00:08:36.010 --> 00:08:46.611
But and that was my own ignorance at the time Not really understanding man, if you went in Chicago, man, chicago was such an amazing city to play in.

00:08:46.611 --> 00:08:51.299
But yeah, but man, when I got drafted man you were not excited.

00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:53.948
No, I'm like man, I ain't never known the Bears, or throw the ball.

00:08:54.379 --> 00:08:56.547
I'm going to be blocking in Chicago.

00:08:56.888 --> 00:08:57.149
All right.

00:08:57.149 --> 00:09:07.673
So I wanted to kind of talk a moment ago about the notion of, like, you're not having a great deal of insider knowledge as a you know, as a essentially as a college student looking for an agent.

00:09:07.673 --> 00:09:24.702
I mean, obviously, the NBA has has done a lot in terms of what they're called their mentoring programs, in terms of bringing in veteran athletes to speak to the rookie classes about, hey, this is how you should, this is how you should think about, you know saving your money and this is how you should think about.

00:09:24.702 --> 00:09:30.879
You know when you are talking about endorsements and this is how you should think about when you're looking for agents, and you know how to protect yourself, et cetera.

00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.567
And I think the NFL does something, does something very similar.

00:09:33.567 --> 00:09:39.190
Have you ever participated in mentoring, in mentoring programs like that in the NFL?

00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:45.970
No, I haven't, but I've definitely my phone.

00:09:45.970 --> 00:09:47.874
There's a lot of players that have my number.

00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:49.265
I've never done it through the NFL.

00:09:51.303 --> 00:09:56.164
I do talk to players about things I love doing.

00:09:56.164 --> 00:09:59.187
That I feel like that's our job and I give them to them raw man.

00:09:59.187 --> 00:09:59.561
I'm not.

00:09:59.561 --> 00:10:02.369
I'm not a salesman and I have them.

00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:05.327
I would think they, I think they would, they would appreciate your honesty.

00:10:06.121 --> 00:10:11.408
Well, well, here's the thing Most of the guys, if you ain't telling them what they want to hear, they're not listening.

00:10:11.408 --> 00:10:12.410
They're there present.

00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:13.885
They're here, but they're not listening.

00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:33.145
I've always said you got to get to the person that's closest to them, because if you don't know, like and these were kids that I knew personally that made it, that played in the league Now for me to go and this and I'm just a lot of people think this is not not true, but in my mind this is a reality.

00:10:33.145 --> 00:10:40.082
We've always had people come back, even in my time, to tell us man, do this with your money, don't hang around in this group of guys.

00:10:40.082 --> 00:10:41.168
Man, you need to lead him along.

00:10:41.168 --> 00:10:43.125
Man, you can't bring your own friends with you.

00:10:43.125 --> 00:10:45.445
Nobody's listening to that.

00:10:46.307 --> 00:10:46.509
Right.

00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:48.125
Like we don't know you.

00:10:48.125 --> 00:10:54.032
You know you're trying to tell somebody something and we don't know you.

00:10:54.032 --> 00:10:57.110
So they'll get guys who played in the league to come.

00:10:57.110 --> 00:10:59.618
And I'm not saying it doesn't impact players.

00:10:59.618 --> 00:11:01.004
I'm not saying that.

00:11:01.004 --> 00:11:08.567
I'm just saying for the most part, for the most part, we listen to people that we really feel like got our best interests.

00:11:08.567 --> 00:11:09.229
You know what I'm saying.

00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.589
Like at that time you got to think about it.

00:11:12.589 --> 00:11:16.831
You're young, you're 20, you know you're 21 years old.

00:11:16.831 --> 00:11:21.912
You got all this money and everybody's telling you what to do with it.

00:11:21.912 --> 00:11:23.807
And I'm talking to everybody you don't know.

00:11:23.807 --> 00:11:25.431
I'm talking like even your agent.

00:11:25.431 --> 00:11:26.399
For an example.

00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.726
I'm going to give you an example and just think about this for a second.

00:11:28.726 --> 00:11:33.049
I hate when people say you can't hang around these guys no more.

00:11:33.049 --> 00:11:34.586
You got to get away from these guys.

00:11:34.586 --> 00:11:37.951
You got to think about this for 21 years.

00:11:37.951 --> 00:11:42.225
These are the people that's in your life, right?

00:11:42.225 --> 00:11:43.980
These are your real friends.

00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:45.340
This is who you are.

00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:50.922
All of a sudden, you meet this agent and he's giving you all the right advice.

00:11:51.695 --> 00:11:54.283
But you wasn't there at 15 when I was broke.

00:11:54.283 --> 00:12:00.222
You wasn't there at 16 when the drug de la doux gave me money so I can eat.

00:12:00.222 --> 00:12:08.221
You wasn't there when Ms Smith, down the street, gave us two slices of bread so I can make a sandwich, because we didn't have a loaf of bread Right.

00:12:08.221 --> 00:12:15.941
So now you got this group telling you one thing and you got this group that you just meet a former NFL player.

00:12:15.941 --> 00:12:17.676
Yeah, you cool, you Hall of Famer Dude.

00:12:17.676 --> 00:12:20.077
I don't know you, even your agent.

00:12:20.077 --> 00:12:25.559
Like, okay, you're my agent, but, man, you wasn't around here when I was dealing with all this.

00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:30.181
I wanna take your advice, but man, no, I gotta help these people.

00:12:30.181 --> 00:12:38.344
So always say, man, those first three years, like those, are the prayer years.

00:12:38.344 --> 00:12:44.120
You hope you go to that second contract, because it all really is maturity, because we're broke.

00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.523
The first thing we do is we go buy homes, we go buy cars, we go do all this thing.

00:12:48.523 --> 00:12:53.705
We not invested nothing, because most of the people we're around don't understand investment.

00:12:53.705 --> 00:12:59.581
It's go to work, get a check, pay the bills and go check the check, the check, the check.

00:12:59.581 --> 00:13:02.384
So we're not educated on none of that stuff.

00:13:02.384 --> 00:13:05.445
Probably now they are, but you're not educated on it.

00:13:05.445 --> 00:13:13.256
So to get through to a young guy man, people like to say all the good stuff, man, but again.

00:13:13.297 --> 00:13:14.481
I'm around these guys.

00:13:14.481 --> 00:13:30.244
I'm very, very authentic, open and real with them and I understand when the guy is still hanging around the crowd like he lives in a great neighborhood out of his neighborhood, but he has nothing in common with his neighbors.

00:13:30.244 --> 00:13:32.402
He's 21 years old, he's rich.

00:13:32.402 --> 00:13:35.482
He has nothing in common with his neighbor.

00:13:35.482 --> 00:13:37.783
So guess what he does to have fun on off season.

00:13:37.783 --> 00:13:44.660
He goes back to what he knows and where he's welcome and where he's comfortable.

00:13:44.660 --> 00:13:50.741
He's not comfortable in that environment and the first thing outsiders say why is he still hanging around that group?

00:13:50.741 --> 00:13:56.620
They don't seem to think about really other than man, you're making a million dollars or two, three million dollars.

00:13:56.620 --> 00:13:58.000
You need to get away from them.

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.782
People how this is family, these are friends.

00:14:01.782 --> 00:14:04.440
So it becomes so.

00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:14.259
I allow these guys to talk and open up and say things that they're a little afraid to say because they see I come from that man.

00:14:14.259 --> 00:14:16.519
I'm not gonna get on you because you make a mistake.

00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.139
You went and messed off some money.

00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:19.958
Man, we all did.

00:14:19.958 --> 00:14:23.003
Some of us was lucky to play 12 years and recoup it.

00:14:23.003 --> 00:14:26.261
You know you gotta buy mama house.

00:14:26.261 --> 00:14:27.700
People don't realize it ain't all.

00:14:27.700 --> 00:14:28.903
You just blowing your money.

00:14:28.903 --> 00:14:31.182
It's like you taking care of people.

00:14:31.335 --> 00:14:32.701
Sure, the people who took care of you.

00:14:33.355 --> 00:14:36.640
Yeah, you the guy who made it, so it's no longer oh you need.

00:14:36.640 --> 00:14:37.703
Can I borrow $10?

00:14:37.703 --> 00:14:38.116
This is no.

00:14:38.116 --> 00:14:39.302
Can I borrow $1,000?

00:14:40.298 --> 00:14:43.339
Because I'm about to lose my house, I gotta pay my taxes.

00:14:43.339 --> 00:14:45.562
You know that old dynamic change.

00:14:45.634 --> 00:14:50.827
So I just, I, just, I'm honest with these guys.

00:14:50.827 --> 00:14:55.176
I'll allow them to make those mistakes without man.

00:14:55.176 --> 00:14:55.777
You dumb.

00:14:55.777 --> 00:14:56.899
You hear that all the time.

00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:57.542
Man, that's stupid.

00:14:57.542 --> 00:14:58.023
No, it ain't.

00:14:58.023 --> 00:14:58.825
It's so normal.

00:14:58.825 --> 00:15:06.337
Unfortunately, people are afraid to speak truth and that's that's, that's almost everybody I will say today.

00:15:06.337 --> 00:15:22.441
Just because you have more people now with more knowledge while they're in college, you know they have a tendency to do better early, not to mention you know they're not getting $800,000, a million dollars a week Contract these guys getting a day.

00:15:22.441 --> 00:15:27.000
If you go broke today, something wrong you did something very wrong.

00:15:27.515 --> 00:15:28.399
You got a lot of money today.

00:15:28.495 --> 00:15:33.602
It's like Brewster's millions and you're getting paid in college now too, which is very different from when you played.

00:15:33.735 --> 00:15:35.360
So that a lot of differences.

00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:42.019
So, regarding your personal journey then, was that the biggest eye-opener when you get to the Bears and make it to the NFL?

00:15:42.019 --> 00:15:43.580
Was it on field stuff?

00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:45.740
Was it the off the field stuff?

00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:46.975
What?

00:15:46.975 --> 00:15:49.023
What was the biggest eye-opener for you?

00:15:49.023 --> 00:15:55.865
Like talking to yourself, like, wow, I'm going to have to really make an adjustment here or figure this out or get this going in the right direction.

00:15:55.865 --> 00:15:57.080
Like what was the biggest thing?

00:15:57.934 --> 00:16:03.615
I never felt like I was going in the wrong direction, because you can't make me do something I don't want to do, sure.

00:16:03.615 --> 00:16:09.620
So on, this field was going to take care of itself because of who I am as a football player.

00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:17.178
Right, I knew that I didn't have a lot of experience as a receiver and I'm playing against the best of the best Because I was a seventh pick.

00:16:17.178 --> 00:16:22.043
I had a lot of pressure on me to come and turn the program, turn the organization around.

00:16:22.043 --> 00:16:28.484
That was a lot of pressure, playing in the big city and not having the experience as a wide receiver.

00:16:28.484 --> 00:16:30.179
Who was your quarterback at the time?

00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:33.322
Jim Harbaugh was my quarterback on first year.

00:16:33.976 --> 00:16:36.203
Oh wow, that must have been fun yeah.

00:16:36.434 --> 00:16:37.339
You know well, I didn't.

00:16:37.339 --> 00:16:40.883
We didn't really communicate because I was a rookie and he was a veteran.

00:16:40.883 --> 00:16:50.243
So back then, man, it was like you know, we had the same room as a veteran seemed like the veteran was like the grown, like they were like grandpas.

00:16:50.243 --> 00:16:58.259
We were like little kids tearing up, but the football stuff I knew at some point was going to take care of itself.

00:16:58.259 --> 00:17:11.661
Just because the confidence I had in me as an athlete not just a football player, as an athlete, I knew I was going to be capable of making an adjustment at some point Off the field was tough because, again, you know, I didn't leave South Central at all.

00:17:11.981 --> 00:17:12.845
You got to think about it.

00:17:12.845 --> 00:17:19.282
Middle school, high school, elementary college was all right there in South Central LA.

00:17:19.282 --> 00:17:19.924
I didn't leave.

00:17:19.924 --> 00:17:21.942
So my life was right there.

00:17:21.942 --> 00:17:24.096
And all of a sudden, now you got money, you move.

00:17:24.096 --> 00:17:25.201
I moved to Orange County.

00:17:25.201 --> 00:17:33.482
You know I'm speaking from experience when I say I'm that kid who lives in Orange County, in a nice neighborhood away from the neighborhood.

00:17:33.482 --> 00:17:35.117
But I'm coming.

00:17:35.117 --> 00:17:37.484
You know I went to USC.

00:17:37.484 --> 00:17:41.540
Let me, let me, let me back up my first few years in the NFL.

00:17:41.540 --> 00:17:47.603
The only off season in the spring, I was back in class at USC finishing up my degree, oh interesting.

00:17:47.603 --> 00:17:51.978
So I would go to school After class.

00:17:51.978 --> 00:17:57.124
I would go back in the neighborhood of my grandmother's house and wait for the traffic to die down.

00:17:57.424 --> 00:17:57.605
Wow.

00:17:58.056 --> 00:18:00.198
So I'm there and I never forget.

00:18:00.198 --> 00:18:11.105
One day after my this was probably two months into going back to school I was on the freeway going back and it was crazy to, at this point, really pay attention to this.

00:18:11.105 --> 00:18:20.964
The further and further I got away from my neighborhood, the nicer it got, and it never dawned on me when I cause I never lived nowhere else.

00:18:20.964 --> 00:18:30.884
I remember being in Orange County one day and saying, man, I wish everybody I knew I could buy my house around here because it was boring.

00:18:30.884 --> 00:18:34.027
But I'm living in a great neighborhood.

00:18:34.027 --> 00:18:37.548
You know everything is nice, big houses and clean.

00:18:37.548 --> 00:18:39.845
But it was boring cause I wouldn't.

00:18:39.845 --> 00:18:40.848
I wouldn't know these people.

00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:49.970
You're not with your friends, you're not with your people, I'm not with my friends, so I would spend a lot of time Like it was times that I was down there when I shouldn't have been down there.

00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:52.165
I mean, it's 12 o'clock at night.

00:18:52.165 --> 00:18:55.128
I'm in South Central LA as a Chicago bear, but I'm home.

00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:56.525
Nothing good happens after midnight.

00:18:56.925 --> 00:19:01.392
Yeah, and nothing happens good throughout the day in South Central.

00:19:01.392 --> 00:19:13.587
But, remember this is home Like I, like somebody driving down the street that was in the NFL and see Curtis Conway standing out there with these guys.

00:19:13.587 --> 00:19:15.765
Man, this is dangerous.

00:19:15.765 --> 00:19:17.484
Why is he here?

00:19:17.484 --> 00:19:23.065
Like our minds at that time, we're not thinking like that, like this is home for us.

00:19:23.065 --> 00:19:23.747
What do you mean?

00:19:23.747 --> 00:19:24.549
Why am I here?

00:19:24.549 --> 00:19:26.688
Nobody can understand unless they've been through it.

00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:51.007
Was there a moment in your journey where you pivoted and I guess what I'm imagining is whether it was towards family, whether it was towards wanting something more beyond football, like after you became a pro, as you were on that path, as you were creating, you know, at least looking from the outside a more stable life for yourself?

00:19:51.007 --> 00:19:57.662
Was there a moment where you pivoted towards a different version of you, so to speak?

00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.823
Yeah, when my twins were born, it wasn't.

00:20:02.823 --> 00:20:03.885
I mean, you gotta remember.

00:20:03.885 --> 00:20:05.369
I don't feel like I'm on a bad course.

00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:09.189
I feel like I'm doing because I never got in trouble.

00:20:09.189 --> 00:20:11.005
I never caused trouble.

00:20:11.005 --> 00:20:22.859
I was always the guy that held my own and did what I wanted to do, and I never was, I would say, bullied or nobody could make me do what I didn't want to do, so I never felt like I was doing something.

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.599
I was never a transition period for you.

00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.695
Yeah, it was never a transition.

00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.130
Like I got to start doing this because, again, I was already on that.

00:20:29.130 --> 00:20:30.338
I was on the path.

00:20:30.338 --> 00:20:34.650
It just wasn't the path that most people would want to see.

00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:43.294
But I will say what changed me is having a responsibility of twin boys.

00:20:43.294 --> 00:20:47.567
I mean, it changed the way I dressed, it changed the way I thought.

00:20:47.567 --> 00:20:51.029
It changed a lot because I grew up without a father.

00:20:51.029 --> 00:20:53.468
You know, I've never said daddy a day in my life.

00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.008
My mom was pregnant at 14 and had me at 15.

00:20:56.008 --> 00:21:05.709
Like I said earlier, I was making decisions on everything on my own at 14, 15 years old and my mom and my grandmother just went with whatever I decided to do.

00:21:05.709 --> 00:21:10.931
I didn't want that for my kid because I knew deep down inside how lost I was.

00:21:10.931 --> 00:21:12.465
I needed a man's approval.

00:21:12.465 --> 00:21:18.826
I wanted to go talk to a man about things that I didn't want to talk to my grandmother and my mom about.

00:21:18.826 --> 00:21:24.407
I not knew my grandmother and my mom loved me more than anything, but it was just certain things that I was just like man.

00:21:24.407 --> 00:21:29.628
I wish I had a father, that I could sit down and just say, dad, what you think about this?

00:21:29.628 --> 00:21:31.386
I mean think about the draft process.

00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:35.990
Think about the agents, think about being in the streets you know who I'm hanging with.

00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:36.602
Like I never.

00:21:36.602 --> 00:21:42.950
Everything was, curtis, what you gonna do, and so I never wanted my kids to be in that situation.

00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:47.609
So, again, when my son was born, it was just.

00:21:47.609 --> 00:21:50.045
It wasn't a thought, it was just instinct.

00:21:50.045 --> 00:21:58.893
This is my responsibility and I don't want my kids ever yeah, my kids ever having to look anywhere for any advice for nothing.

00:21:58.893 --> 00:22:02.589
I almost get jealous if I find out my kids are asking somebody else.

00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:04.442
How old were you at that time?

00:22:05.144 --> 00:22:05.606
24.

00:22:06.409 --> 00:22:06.670
All right.

00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:13.111
So you were probably like mid career at that point, actually not even probably just the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the, the.

00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:14.423
That was going into my third year.

00:22:14.423 --> 00:22:15.085
I never forget it.

00:22:15.085 --> 00:22:16.910
Yeah, that was going into my third year.

00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:19.627
Um, and that's when my career actually took off.

00:22:19.627 --> 00:22:27.374
Actually, um, I had my kids, my boys, um January, the January after my second season.

00:22:27.374 --> 00:22:29.767
My kids were born in my third year.

00:22:29.767 --> 00:22:30.942
That was my breakout year.

00:22:31.766 --> 00:22:37.211
Yeah, that was your first Thursday, that was your first thousand yard season, right, right, right.

00:22:37.211 --> 00:22:42.145
So, yeah, because I know what you had back to back, back to back thousand yard seasons with the, with the bears.

00:22:42.145 --> 00:22:44.386
Uh, yeah, you're a third and fourth year, correct?

00:22:44.386 --> 00:22:50.208
Um, uh, you would know better than I don't know why I said, correct, yes, yes, yes, you are too yes.

00:22:54.462 --> 00:22:56.188
It's all part of the lingo, yeah.

00:22:56.769 --> 00:22:57.191
Exactly.

00:22:57.191 --> 00:23:03.162
I don't want to jump too high, I don't want to jump through the career because I mean, you know you had such, you had such a good career.

00:23:03.162 --> 00:23:14.548
But at the same time it has to be, it has to be in your mindset at some point that the career is going to end, and I know that I want to.

00:23:14.548 --> 00:23:15.029
There's.

00:23:15.029 --> 00:23:16.960
There's so much more life ahead of me, right?

00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:21.191
I'm going to be probably in my thirties and life doesn't end in my thirties.

00:23:21.191 --> 00:23:32.290
So was there ever a point in the career where you said to yourself okay, I know one day I'm not going to be able to play anymore, or I'm not going to want to play anymore.

00:23:32.290 --> 00:23:34.666
I have to figure out what's next.

00:23:34.666 --> 00:23:36.144
When did you actually say that to yourself?

00:23:36.144 --> 00:23:38.704
I'm going to look towards what's next.

00:23:39.646 --> 00:23:41.250
Never Really.

00:23:41.250 --> 00:23:43.002
You got to remember.

00:23:43.002 --> 00:23:45.760
I live in the moment, right, I didn't.

00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:48.609
I didn't know how to think about other things.

00:23:48.609 --> 00:23:52.069
I, you know, I always tell people I'm a creature of habit.

00:23:52.069 --> 00:24:00.851
If you want to, if you want to do something to me, you follow me for three days and you know for the next six months, what are you going to do.

00:24:00.851 --> 00:24:01.461
That's me.

00:24:01.461 --> 00:24:06.906
I can't do, I don't focus, I don't do more than one thing at a time.

00:24:06.906 --> 00:24:10.809
I don't even try to think about more than one thing at a time.

00:24:10.809 --> 00:24:13.405
Man, I was a football player until they told me I couldn't play.

00:24:13.405 --> 00:24:15.310
That was my mindset.

00:24:15.310 --> 00:24:16.362
You got to remember.

00:24:16.362 --> 00:24:20.541
You can't tell me I can't play football, right, I didn't.

00:24:20.541 --> 00:24:22.829
I never thought about career injuries.

00:24:22.829 --> 00:24:26.321
I never thought about being cut In my mind.

00:24:26.321 --> 00:24:29.530
I was going to be able to play this game as long as I wanted to play it.

00:24:30.260 --> 00:24:35.906
I will say this I did think about when I retired.

00:24:35.906 --> 00:24:38.992
I wanted to be a dad.

00:24:38.992 --> 00:24:40.523
That's all I wanted to do.

00:24:40.523 --> 00:24:42.924
I wanted to be there for my kids.

00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:50.143
You know, I know a lot of people was, you know, trying to be businessmen and I grew up without a father.

00:24:50.143 --> 00:25:10.243
So I felt like man who can honestly say I mean honestly say they did exactly what they wanted to do in life and retired at 35 years old and have the well-beings to now do whatever you wanna do.

00:25:10.243 --> 00:25:20.583
Man, I felt so blessed that financially I was stable, that man I could just be a daddy.

00:25:20.583 --> 00:25:22.721
I can be a father.

00:25:22.721 --> 00:25:30.521
I didn't care nothing about being no businessman To each his own, I just wanted to be a dad, make sure I was there for my kids.

00:25:32.115 --> 00:25:33.701
I didn't spend money when I played.

00:25:33.701 --> 00:25:36.682
I put a lot of money up because, again, I wasn't trying to do nothing.

00:25:36.682 --> 00:25:38.883
I wanted to play football and I was it.

00:25:38.883 --> 00:25:45.859
So I was fortunate enough, by fear and just by my personal, just how I am, I didn't spend a lot of money.

00:25:45.859 --> 00:25:49.546
So when I retired, you know, at the 12 years, I was good.

00:25:49.546 --> 00:25:52.462
So it wasn't about what do I wanna do next.

00:25:52.462 --> 00:25:56.585
It was I knew what I wanted to do while I was playing.

00:25:56.585 --> 00:25:59.564
You know I wanted to be daddy, I wanted to be a father.

00:25:59.654 --> 00:26:03.675
So I'm a very simple guy, yeah.

00:26:03.675 --> 00:26:06.986
So that moment comes and you're being a dad.

00:26:06.986 --> 00:26:08.441
You're being the best dad you can be.

00:26:08.441 --> 00:26:12.422
You're fulfilling that part inside of you that knew that you needed to do that.

00:26:12.422 --> 00:26:14.541
How does the broadcasting thing come about?

00:26:14.541 --> 00:26:19.882
It was it hard for you to even take on something else, because being a dad was that important to you.

00:26:20.934 --> 00:26:26.480
Well, unfortunately that was my first marriage and I ended up.

00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.564
We ended up divorcing and my kids moved to Arizona.

00:26:30.564 --> 00:26:32.259
That's another story.

00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:34.382
You'd be here all night with that story.

00:26:36.199 --> 00:26:42.923
But, when I was done, the kids would be with me for six months and then they went with their mom for six months.

00:26:42.923 --> 00:26:44.721
So what am I doing for six months?

00:26:44.721 --> 00:26:46.979
Sitting there twirling my thumb and it's you know.

00:26:46.979 --> 00:26:57.904
So you know I made some really good investments by having some great relationships with friends and people that I knew that were pretty good businessmen.

00:26:57.904 --> 00:27:00.402
That helped me out with some investments.

00:27:00.402 --> 00:27:09.765
But again, I'm the type of person that I like to do what I want to do and the investment part was it wasn't fun.

00:27:09.765 --> 00:27:12.824
It was okay, you take some money, you do some.

00:27:12.824 --> 00:27:16.518
You know you get into it and everything that I got into it wasn't fun.

00:27:16.518 --> 00:27:17.602
It was just to make money.

00:27:17.602 --> 00:27:25.243
I couldn't coach because, again, when I have my kids, I'm still part of an organization.

00:27:25.243 --> 00:27:29.365
I can't be 100% daddy, so I couldn't coach.

00:27:29.365 --> 00:27:32.545
That's what I really wanted to do as coach.

00:27:32.545 --> 00:27:43.362
So the next best thing was broadcasting, and anybody in Chicago, any media person that covered me in Chicago, would tell you that's the last thing we thought he would do.

00:27:44.758 --> 00:27:48.458
It's being broadcasting because I can care less about the media.

00:27:48.458 --> 00:27:51.326
I didn't want to do interviews, I didn't want to talk after the game.

00:27:51.434 --> 00:27:53.362
So they're still cursing your name to this day.

00:27:55.058 --> 00:28:05.561
Well, you know it's funny because when I was broadcasting and I would travel the country and do games and see guys that covered me, they would say, man, you show matured.

00:28:09.154 --> 00:28:14.740
You developed empathy and sympathy and whatever else, whatever other word I'm looking for.

00:28:15.917 --> 00:28:26.480
Right, but the broadcasting bought me as close to the game as I could I could be, because, again, I wasn't the type of guy that would sit there and watch a football game.

00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.576
I was never that Like.

00:28:27.576 --> 00:28:29.363
I was the guy doing football season.

00:28:29.363 --> 00:28:32.742
I couldn't wait until October come.

00:28:32.742 --> 00:28:34.166
So NBA start.

00:28:34.166 --> 00:28:37.523
I'm watching NBA games on Tuesdays doing football season.

00:28:37.523 --> 00:28:49.384
So that because it made me study at this point like if you're calling a game, you have to study, you have to watch film If you're broadcasting, you know, I've always wanted my draw, my own opinion.

00:28:49.494 --> 00:29:02.945
I didn't want to wait to a producer gives you a bunch of notes, like I love the process of preparing for shows, always wanted to find something that nobody else was talking about within a topic.

00:29:02.945 --> 00:29:06.084
So it was challenging for me.

00:29:06.084 --> 00:29:07.680
I needed that challenge.

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.823
But it was challenging doing something that I enjoy doing and it was football.

00:29:11.823 --> 00:29:14.904
So that's what kind of brought me to broadcasting, probably.

00:29:14.904 --> 00:29:26.964
And I didn't start broadcasting until maybe three or four years after I got out the game and I did a few investments and I started from the bottom.

00:29:26.964 --> 00:29:29.923
I mean, I worked locally, wasn't getting paid.

00:29:29.923 --> 00:29:37.501
I went to the broadcast boot camp for the NFL, oh wow, yeah, I took that like what happens there.

00:29:37.634 --> 00:29:38.096
You learn.

00:29:38.096 --> 00:29:38.980
You know what.

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:39.695
That was.

00:29:39.695 --> 00:29:50.061
The best thing happened to me because at broadcast boot camp some executives that worked for some networks pulled me to the side and they just gave me some real good, some real sound advice.

00:29:50.061 --> 00:29:52.343
Like you don't need to go through all these channels.

00:29:52.343 --> 00:29:59.402
They basically told me what I needed to do and it cut a lot of time out and focused on the wrong things.

00:29:59.402 --> 00:30:03.442
So if anything I got out of it was some good advice on my road.

00:30:03.442 --> 00:30:11.843
I still didn't get you know the big jobs, but at the same time I knew I didn't have to go back to school and go to communications class and do all this.

00:30:11.863 --> 00:30:12.403
That's great.

00:30:12.775 --> 00:30:20.980
This stuff, that people was that I actually thought I had to do and I actually thought that everybody on TV just knew everything about everything.

00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:26.359
So getting there, you know, because, I mean seriously, I used to be like how does this guy know all this?

00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:26.621
Right.

00:30:27.977 --> 00:30:29.722
Like I knew nothing about broadcasting.

00:30:29.782 --> 00:30:41.619
I know Like 15 people telling them exactly what Exactly I think we're gonna say two-share to broadcast boot camp next, that's next on our agenda, so it sounds like you enjoyed it.

00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:42.262
Was it fun?

00:30:42.615 --> 00:30:43.398
Man, I loved it.

00:30:43.398 --> 00:30:44.999
I loved it, man.

00:30:44.999 --> 00:30:46.960
I mean, I think about this.

00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:58.038
To sit there doing the week and watch tape on two NFL teams, get on a plane and go call the game and you know everything about the game and you done study.

00:30:58.038 --> 00:31:00.623
That's like literally, that's your job.

00:31:00.623 --> 00:31:01.980
Like give me a break.

00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.721
You gotta think about where I came from.

00:31:03.721 --> 00:31:13.519
You trying to tell me you're paying me to watch tape all week and I'm gonna spend three and a half hours in the booth talking football.

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:14.923
That's great, man, stop.

00:31:14.942 --> 00:31:16.105
And you're gonna pay me for that.

00:31:16.105 --> 00:31:16.807
What are you nuts?

00:31:19.903 --> 00:31:21.246
Yeah, it was so cool.

00:31:21.246 --> 00:31:30.962
You know the only thing about me when I was in studio I'm a little too real, yeah, and so you know how you know our mainstream is.

00:31:30.962 --> 00:31:34.085
You know they want you to kind of tap NASA a little bit.

00:31:35.798 --> 00:31:42.320
So, you know I prided myself on being authentic and again, you gotta remember I never do things for money.

00:31:42.320 --> 00:32:03.386
So if I was to get fired because You'd be fine, I was fine with it because as long as I can walk away and I'm standing on my morals and my principles and I'm only stating the facts based on my research and my experience, you can't tell me this is not my experience, but I understand how the machine work and you know I'm not gonna be on the machine like that too strong.

00:32:03.386 --> 00:32:07.423
So but it was weird thing.

00:32:07.423 --> 00:32:16.602
People would always say man, you're probably the nicest guy off a camera, but on camera we can't get you to not say this You're gonna say this to your mom.

00:32:17.115 --> 00:32:21.461
I'm thinking of Roy Kenford, ted Lasso right now, for all those people who watch that show.

00:32:22.596 --> 00:32:23.701
But you gotta think about it.

00:32:23.701 --> 00:32:33.823
I'm the guy that if you give me the topics the day before the show, I'm just the type of person I can't sit there and know something not articulate.

00:32:33.823 --> 00:32:39.381
Now, I'm never gonna be crazy on TV, but I'm not gonna go with the flow because it's low hanging fruit.

00:32:39.381 --> 00:32:45.759
I'm not gonna go with the flow because in somebody else's mind, the expert like I'm the expert.

00:32:46.335 --> 00:32:47.500
Yeah, tell like it is.

00:32:47.934 --> 00:32:54.859
Yeah, I'm the expert, so I don't care who said it on ESPN, I don't care who said it anyway, I don't care if a head coach said it.

00:32:54.859 --> 00:32:59.164
My experience and what I see is my.

00:32:59.164 --> 00:33:05.424
It's coming from me, it's not coming from nobody else, and of course I always felt like doing that.

00:33:05.424 --> 00:33:15.584
I was the guy on TV was say things that coaches couldn't say publicly, and I was also the guy that players can't say public.

00:33:15.584 --> 00:33:21.575
For an example, as a player I can watch a game and know it was terrible play calling man.

00:33:21.595 --> 00:33:24.680
I was a terrible game player when I'm studying the tape.

00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:31.942
But that player after the game can go on after in an interview after the game and said man, the coach was calling some terrible plays.

00:33:31.942 --> 00:33:33.657
Man, the game plan.

00:33:33.657 --> 00:33:35.919
We practiced this all week and we never called it.

00:33:35.919 --> 00:33:45.240
But as somebody that's been there, I can say that on TV, whereas players always get blamed for stuff, coaches never get blamed.

00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:51.603
And same thing when I was doing college football, it was certain things you couldn't say about the kids.

00:33:51.603 --> 00:33:55.179
I'm like man, are you around, some of these kids Like you?

00:33:55.199 --> 00:33:56.224
talk about hurting these feelings.

00:33:58.095 --> 00:34:02.260
Like man, come on the way these kids be talking Like no, they gonna get it too.

00:34:02.260 --> 00:34:09.422
I'm just gonna be honest, based on what my eyes see, and sometimes that could be a little tough for a studio.

00:34:09.422 --> 00:34:21.586
So I never really I like studio, but I'm more of a radio podcast guy.

00:34:21.606 --> 00:34:22.047
We love it.

00:34:22.047 --> 00:34:24.255
It's going well so far, perfect, perfect.

00:34:24.255 --> 00:34:29.782
So, curtis, it sounds like the pivot towards broadcasting went extremely well.

00:34:29.782 --> 00:34:32.422
It was fun, it was fulfilling and everything else.

00:34:32.422 --> 00:34:38.023
I think the other pivot we have to talk about is towards what you're doing now.

00:34:38.023 --> 00:34:40.702
You mentioned earlier that you had twins.

00:34:40.702 --> 00:34:43.081
I know that you have kids.

00:34:43.081 --> 00:34:48.844
Now again, can you talk a little bit about this part of your life?

00:34:48.844 --> 00:34:50.681
We know that you're married to Leila Ali.

00:34:50.681 --> 00:34:53.675
We have to reference that, of course on the program.

00:34:53.735 --> 00:34:54.597
You better reference it.

00:34:54.597 --> 00:34:59.643
She might confide this afterwards if we don't bring her out.

00:35:00.795 --> 00:35:04.204
Talk to us about that pivot towards sports, family et cetera, et cetera.

00:35:04.815 --> 00:35:18.166
Well, family's always been important to me and I got it wrong the first time, but that didn't deter me from wanting to be married again, so I've always liked the idea of being a family man.

00:35:18.166 --> 00:35:23.684
Again, like I said, I was around that in my neighborhood, so that was a family.

00:35:23.684 --> 00:35:39.105
So at this point, a funny story the reason why I'm just sitting here today being daddy which I really enjoy doing is when me and Leila first got together, we were both in transitioning from our careers.

00:35:39.105 --> 00:35:41.724
I was transitioning from football.

00:35:41.724 --> 00:36:00.978
I think she may have had maybe three more fights before she decided she wanted to have a kid, and before we got married we talked about kids and the future and the main thing we came up with is we didn't want to have nannies and we didn't want to have babysitters and we wanted to be present.

00:36:04.501 --> 00:36:05.485
And so time goes on.

00:36:05.485 --> 00:36:10.344
We have kids and we're both able to juggle our careers.

00:36:10.344 --> 00:36:16.085
We were both traveling a lot, but it never affected someone being present at home.

00:36:16.085 --> 00:36:19.998
We never, ever, ever had to have somebody at the house while we were on the road.

00:36:19.998 --> 00:36:39.440
It wasn't until my kids started to get older and they started getting into sports, where we sat down again, I like to say, we sat down at the team table and we had to change the game plan, so we sat there and I was doing broadcasting.

00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:47.963
Of course, my wife is doing so many amazing things in TV and business and work and speaking and she's a real awesome.

00:36:47.994 --> 00:36:49.621
Your wife is her own cottage industry.

00:36:49.621 --> 00:36:53.043
For God's sake, no absolutely Absolutely.

00:36:53.516 --> 00:36:58.362
And when I mean she does it, man, I admire my wife's work ethic, man.

00:36:58.362 --> 00:37:06.498
She wakes up in the morning and after we're gone taking the kids to school, she's in the office working from time and she loves it.

00:37:06.498 --> 00:37:09.824
She loves the grind and doing what she does.

00:37:09.824 --> 00:37:18.168
And so that leads me to this that when we sat down, we both knew we both couldn't keep going Doing what we were doing.

00:37:18.168 --> 00:37:19.371
Our kids are getting older.

00:37:19.371 --> 00:37:20.755
You know, we're traveling a lot.

00:37:20.755 --> 00:37:23.704
Who's gonna be there to take the kids to practice school and all this?

00:37:23.704 --> 00:37:28.298
So you know, unfortunately but fortunately, you know, I didn't think I was gonna be the one.

00:37:28.298 --> 00:37:35.398
When I had this conversation before he had kids, I was thinking, okay, yeah, I'm gonna be the one to keep working and doing what I want to do and she's gonna be at home with the kids.

00:37:37.885 --> 00:37:54.117
The smart thing is for her to keep doing what she's doing because, honestly, layla really loves what she she does and we, we, we, we compliment each other on who we are as people.

00:37:54.117 --> 00:38:12.255
So, although I had to, you know, swallow my pride and throw my ego away, it's worth it, man, because I got a real team player, and so I like to say that I like it because, again, I use everything for football with, even in my marriage.

00:38:12.255 --> 00:38:30.168
I Although I don't want, you know, I don't like being in this position, because I still want to work and do what I like to do, but I like to say it like this we had a balance offense and you know I was getting eight catches, guess what?

00:38:30.168 --> 00:38:33.677
You know they're playing prevent defense because you got a block now.

00:38:33.677 --> 00:38:38.393
So You're not gonna get the statistics that you want.

00:38:38.434 --> 00:38:41.590
So Back to the Bears blocking for you.

00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:45.159
Curtis, but will you be competing for her position sometime soon?

00:38:53.365 --> 00:38:54.188
She's amazing.

00:38:54.188 --> 00:38:58.123
And so, again, you know, we, we work together, man, so good as a team.

00:38:58.123 --> 00:39:07.737
Like I said, I had to swallow my pride and, you know, put the stuff that I want to do outside of the family To put that on hold, because the most important thing was the team.

00:39:07.737 --> 00:39:19.235
And so, in order for us to win a Super Bowl, I got a block and let her run the ball until the kids are out of school, and then I can, you know, the game plan to change again, but for now, this is the role I gotta play.

00:39:20.146 --> 00:39:20.387
All right.

00:39:20.387 --> 00:39:23.847
So you just mentioned a moment ago the notion of Layla.

00:39:23.847 --> 00:39:33.869
Your wife loves what she does, and you talked about it before the the idea that you have to love your job, whether it be football.

00:39:33.869 --> 00:39:34.831
Will it be anything right?

00:39:34.831 --> 00:39:38.418
Yeah, there's the idea of being determined and the idea of loving it as well.

00:39:38.418 --> 00:39:39.730
Did you love?

00:39:39.730 --> 00:39:43.471
Did you love Broadcasting, or did you like broadcasting?

00:39:43.471 --> 00:39:45.657
And then I like make it easier.

00:39:45.657 --> 00:39:47.954
Did it make it easier to walk away from it because of that?

00:39:49.425 --> 00:39:51.469
No, I love the process.

00:39:51.469 --> 00:39:54.132
I love the process of broadcasting.

00:39:54.132 --> 00:39:55.275
I love the preparation.

00:39:55.275 --> 00:39:58.380
I didn't like the political part of broadcasting.

00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:11.719
Okay you know, again, I love studying and researching and watching and being authentic and you know I some of these broadcasts if they tap dance on TV.

00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:19.086
You know I've worked with plenty of guys who you know, you know on commercial break man.

00:40:19.086 --> 00:40:22.875
You know they have a whole, totally different opinion on so they're different person.

00:40:22.894 --> 00:40:25.769
Right, there's different person and they have a different opinion.

00:40:25.769 --> 00:40:27.253
They just don't want to be on TV.

00:40:27.253 --> 00:40:29.947
There are millions of people rough on Ruffling feathers.

00:40:29.947 --> 00:40:40.085
You know, I always stand on my square because I'm always be able to go back and show you what I mean and at the same time, if I'm wrong, I've always been open to learn.

00:40:40.085 --> 00:40:42.594
So if I'm wrong, I've never been the guy.

00:40:42.594 --> 00:40:48.963
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and so for me, when I'm wrong, I've learned something new.

00:40:48.963 --> 00:40:50.588
Now you just gave me more ammunition.

00:40:50.588 --> 00:40:56.327
So that's always been my approach stand on my truth, stand on my research and say it.

00:40:56.429 --> 00:41:08.293
But again, you know some things you know the studios don't like and so you can't be as authentic as you you want to because, again, you represent the network also and I understand all that.

00:41:08.293 --> 00:41:11.302
So certain things are for me, certain things are not.

00:41:11.302 --> 00:41:16.548
So I believe calling games was my deal, like you know.

00:41:16.548 --> 00:41:19.356
Going to the game, calling the game, calling the action.

00:41:19.356 --> 00:41:21.101
I love that.

00:41:21.101 --> 00:41:22.907
I Love that.

00:41:22.907 --> 00:41:26.297
I love doing the radio shows because I think it's a conversation.

00:41:26.297 --> 00:41:27.768
It's not okay.

00:41:27.768 --> 00:41:29.472
You got 30 seconds.

00:41:29.472 --> 00:41:40.052
A producer is in your ear saying you got 20 seconds left to get your point across and everybody else done took up the whole three and a half minutes Like that kind of stuff.

00:41:40.052 --> 00:41:47.376
You know it's like how do I reword all this in 20 seconds and nobody knows that a producer is in your ear telling you all this online.

00:41:47.376 --> 00:41:50.413
But but again, it wasn't.

00:41:50.512 --> 00:42:02.838
Like I said, for the most part, man, even that was fun because you, you, you still talking ball, you you get a chance to state your own opinion on based on what you do and you get a chance to be great people.

00:42:02.838 --> 00:42:09.793
You know, you know I didn't like media people at first, but again, I don't know on personally.

00:42:09.793 --> 00:42:15.264
So you get a chance to to hang out with them and really see like man they get to see you're a regular dude.

00:42:15.264 --> 00:42:18.692
You know, you get to see that they're regular people.

00:42:18.692 --> 00:42:24.489
In like with my relationship with Mike, yeah, I mean, he's man, mike is like a brother, like man.

00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:41.719
I will hurt somebody over Mike, yeah, but that's the relationship we developed outside of being on TV, just driving in the car, going to different places, learning about each other, learning we probably have more similarities than then did not, and coming from two totally different places.

00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:51.518
So, like I said, those are the great things about doing broadcasts for me Is I was able to, to, to meet some good people and have some strong relationships, still to this day.

00:42:52.186 --> 00:42:52.405
That's.

00:42:52.405 --> 00:43:10.724
It's very fortunate and I should point out that that Mike Yam has a who's with the NFL Network now is one of their primary hosts he's doing which show at six o'clock at night every night he does NFL Tonight or whatever it's called their big show and he was a fella years ago.

00:43:10.724 --> 00:43:21.813
He was actually on our original version of the program, so that's the person that we all have okay, we Curtis, we would be remiss as professionals if we did not ask you about your father-in-law.

00:43:22.014 --> 00:43:29.324
Because the great Muhammad Ali, can you tell us a quick story about an interaction with him, something with him?

00:43:29.324 --> 00:43:29.826
I mean?

00:43:29.826 --> 00:43:34.657
This is a man that shaped the world in so many ways.

00:43:34.657 --> 00:43:38.605
So we would be remiss if we didn't ask you about your father-in-law.

00:43:38.605 --> 00:43:40.027
Do you remember the first time you met him?

00:43:40.027 --> 00:43:41.592
Tell us a little bit about him, if you could.

00:43:41.592 --> 00:43:46.586
Man, this is crazy, it's Wow.

00:43:47.027 --> 00:44:03.132
You know, just thinking back on it I get emotional because, you know, Growing up without a father, you know to say that the first man that was even close to being the word father was Muhammad Ali, my father-in-law.

00:44:03.132 --> 00:44:08.952
Like my god, I think I think about that, like wow, like yeah, this how it's supposed to be.

00:44:08.952 --> 00:44:17.516
You know, growing up without a father and the first person that I can actually say was in a that that father was my father-in-law, muhammad Ali.

00:44:17.516 --> 00:44:20.992
It's, it's crazy.

00:44:20.992 --> 00:44:28.679
And Literally the first time I met him, I've met a lot of people, from Michael Jordan, magic Johnson I've been around a lot of people.

00:44:29.846 --> 00:44:38.094
It's only two people where I felt the room and the spirit change when I first met him and now it was Nelson Mandela and Muhammad Ali.

00:44:38.094 --> 00:44:40.690
It was, it was.

00:44:40.690 --> 00:44:45.418
It wasn't like man, that's Muhammad Ali, how you doing, it was.

00:44:45.418 --> 00:44:48.869
It was really like Energy in the room.

00:44:48.869 --> 00:44:59.248
That's so undescribable that you knew God put these two people on earth for something bigger than than life.

00:44:59.248 --> 00:45:16.096
And I Remember I mean I literally ditched him out two or three times when he really yeah, I was being Laila was dating and you know he would come in town and she would say I'm about to go visit my father.

00:45:16.096 --> 00:45:17.858
You want to come, absolutely not.

00:45:24.925 --> 00:45:32.068
Right the guy that who's dating his baby girl right, that's the guy.

00:45:32.309 --> 00:45:33.532
That's the guy.

00:45:33.532 --> 00:45:35.860
Curtis Conway, that's the guy it's.

00:45:36.001 --> 00:45:40.204
It's funny because, um, you know, it was different than any other time.

00:45:40.204 --> 00:45:49.751
Like I said, the energy when I walked in there, but before then it was like I'm not just going to meet him as a fan, like I'm going to meet him as His daughter's boyfriend.

00:45:50.192 --> 00:45:54.764
Yeah, and I know how I am as a father, you know, especially with my daughter.

00:45:54.764 --> 00:46:05.320
So it's like, okay, nah, she never knew, she just found out cuz I told this story before.

00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:06.043
She never knew it.

00:46:06.043 --> 00:46:33.367
But when I finally met him you know of course he had Parkinson's, so you had to be up close to kind of hearing and he was still able to say some things at the time and One of the first things he asked me I mean he broke the ice immediately, like I sat down and Him and Laila they have this relationship like she talks trash to him getting Going.

00:46:33.427 --> 00:46:40.385
And when we walked in the room, you know, he just was staring at me and Laila looked at him and she saw that he was Staring.

00:46:40.385 --> 00:46:42.851
She was like, yeah, that's my man, that's my man.

00:46:42.851 --> 00:46:49.952
My heart started beating so fast and it was more people there.

00:46:49.952 --> 00:46:53.043
So once we got in there, she hugged and kissed and she left out of the room.

00:46:53.043 --> 00:46:57.610
Now it's just me and him in this room and I'm like man, you were just who.

00:46:57.610 --> 00:46:59.876
I was about to get a life sentence in jail.

00:47:01.141 --> 00:47:02.224
I'm like what do.

00:47:02.304 --> 00:47:03.387
I say what do I do?

00:47:03.387 --> 00:47:07.844
She just literally just sit, and she didn't introduce us like that, it was just, I mean, it was just crazy.

00:47:07.844 --> 00:47:20.125
So I was sitting close enough to him where I could hear, cuz I'm sitting right next to him, basically, and the only question I can remember was he said are you guys playing or having babies?

00:47:22.393 --> 00:47:22.514
Oh.

00:47:23.905 --> 00:47:24.266
It wasn't.

00:47:24.266 --> 00:47:28.887
I don't think it was the first question, but that was the one that Rattled me.

00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:49.264
Yeah and I said, wow, like Me and his daughter got to be doing something to have a baby, yes, and I just started laughing and he starts smiling and I didn't even have to answer the question.

00:47:49.264 --> 00:47:59.509
Man, that's great, of kind of shaking me up but at the same time, like I'm just kidding because at the end of the day, man, his spirit, it's amazing.

00:47:59.509 --> 00:48:06.992
Man just being in his presence, knowing who he is, it's different man, like I wish.

00:48:06.992 --> 00:48:14.818
I Wish everybody couldn't experience spending time with him, because everywhere I go, I could be in the airport and it could be.

00:48:14.818 --> 00:48:22.590
I mean, I don't had everybody from every nationality, every you know I'm in the airport and it's not.

00:48:22.590 --> 00:48:25.797
Oh, your Curtis Conway, no, you're Layla Lee's husband, curtis.

00:48:27.405 --> 00:48:33.688
Exactly law of Muhammad Ali and then they come with this story About when they met him.

00:48:33.688 --> 00:48:46.304
And so, man, just to just to see All the people that he touched, still to this day people have Ali stories when I'm out in public if they encountered him.

00:48:46.304 --> 00:48:53.298
I know what my experience was with him for over a decade being in his presence and learning from him.

00:48:53.298 --> 00:49:11.269
Man, he, he was he different man, like when he say he must be the greatest, and I know at that time it was an arrogance about him and everybody, man, you know he understood what his platform was for and I don't know too many people man that's willing to give it all up.

00:49:11.269 --> 00:49:13.416
You know, I don't know nobody that gave it all up.

00:49:14.059 --> 00:49:15.605
Yep, like he did everything.

00:49:15.684 --> 00:49:16.007
Yeah.

00:49:16.007 --> 00:49:42.737
And so, man, to see that and to see what a lot of these athletes today the kind of money that that they're making Really don't really want to stand and lose anything because they're afraid to lose the money or piss a few people off, it just goes to show how special he was and still present In my life spiritually Today, man, so I guess I can be here all night talking about him.

00:49:42.878 --> 00:49:43.960
Yeah, that's that's.

00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.487
That's an incredible story, you know, in Curtis.

00:49:46.487 --> 00:50:02.364
I think that is a great transition to Sort of a wrap-up question in a way, considering the journey that you've been on, the people that you've had the opportunity to know, having the opportunity to get close to Ali.

00:50:02.364 --> 00:50:04.710
There's so many different things.

00:50:04.710 --> 00:50:07.958
Incredible things happened in your life that you had to overcome, etc.

00:50:07.958 --> 00:50:08.097
Etc.

00:50:08.097 --> 00:50:13.885
If you were talking to you know, your, your son, who you mentioned earlier, is a baseball player.

00:50:13.885 --> 00:50:27.235
If you were talking to another young athlete that had great passion for what they were doing, what would you tell a young athlete that aspires to Follow that path?

00:50:27.235 --> 00:50:28.864
What advice would you give them?

00:50:30.309 --> 00:50:31.855
Keep going until you can't go.

00:50:31.855 --> 00:50:36.793
Keep going, that's all I always tell people.

00:50:36.793 --> 00:50:39.387
Keep going, but it's tough.

00:50:39.387 --> 00:50:39.909
Keep going.

00:50:39.909 --> 00:50:40.731
What?

00:50:40.771 --> 00:50:42.414
I don't like to watch everything, keep going.

00:50:43.135 --> 00:50:43.838
I kept going.

00:50:43.838 --> 00:50:45.949
Ali kept going.

00:50:45.949 --> 00:50:48.893
Michael Jordan kept going when he got cut.

00:50:48.893 --> 00:50:52.054
Kobe kept going when he missed all those three pointers.

00:50:52.054 --> 00:50:55.324
Tom Brady kept going when he was a six round draft pig.

00:50:55.324 --> 00:50:57.630
Man, great and start, cuz.

00:50:57.630 --> 00:50:58.733
You love what you're doing.

00:50:58.733 --> 00:51:00.981
You keep going, keep going into.

00:51:01.001 --> 00:51:04.449
Like I said, when I was in the NFL, I never thought about what was next.

00:51:04.449 --> 00:51:07.436
I just kept going until they told me I couldn't play no more.

00:51:07.436 --> 00:51:17.195
Then I thought about the next thing, not saying that's always the best thing, but man, if you got passion for something, man don't let nobody to tear you away from that.

00:51:17.195 --> 00:51:19.592
You got to keep going, keep going.

00:51:19.592 --> 00:51:22.869
I tell my son this all the time oh, keep going.

00:51:22.869 --> 00:51:29.128
And what you mean, like okay, you got a shortcoming, things didn't work out.

00:51:29.128 --> 00:51:30.152
Like okay, now what?

00:51:30.152 --> 00:51:33.050
Yeah, you know that's, that's what any.

00:51:33.050 --> 00:51:33.693
That's life.

00:51:33.693 --> 00:51:37.610
You know I Was, you know I was in a marriage.

00:51:38.152 --> 00:51:40.097
You know everybody like, oh, why you getting married again?

00:51:40.097 --> 00:51:40.827
Man, it wasn't.

00:51:40.827 --> 00:51:42.371
Marriage is not the problem.

00:51:42.371 --> 00:51:45.090
You know the, you know the team.

00:51:45.090 --> 00:51:47.324
It wasn't the right chemistry on the on that for that team.

00:51:47.324 --> 00:51:51.501
So you got to find the right players and keep moving forward, man.

00:51:51.501 --> 00:51:55.353
And right now you know, I'm living what I've always wanted to live.

00:51:55.353 --> 00:52:03.911
I got a beautiful wife that loved me, support me, and I have a family, something I've always wanted.

00:52:03.911 --> 00:52:05.617
Only because I kept going, I didn't.

00:52:05.617 --> 00:52:07.164
I mean, I had a this that made to me.

00:52:07.164 --> 00:52:08.293
That was the disaster.

00:52:08.293 --> 00:52:16.188
Going through what I went through, you know, having a divorce and my kids being able to go and move out of town, man, that was the worst thing ever happened to me.

00:52:16.188 --> 00:52:23.556
But I just I didn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't Crawl up under rock and say marriage is terrible and didn't want to have kids again.

00:52:23.556 --> 00:52:33.157
You know, I prayed about it, I kept my faith, I stayed on my square and God blessed me with the teammate that I needed to win a Super Bowl.

00:52:33.646 --> 00:52:34.708
That's incredible advice.

00:52:34.708 --> 00:52:36.956
And you've won the Super Bowl, curtis, yeah.

00:52:39.146 --> 00:52:41.402
Not yeah, I got more rules in Tom Brady.

00:52:41.402 --> 00:52:41.684
Do not.

00:52:42.467 --> 00:52:43.009
Yeah, that's right.

00:52:43.630 --> 00:52:46.056
You're the right, you are the game of life.

00:52:46.846 --> 00:52:50.592
Yeah, I got, I got, I got, I got, I won.

00:52:50.592 --> 00:52:52.215
I can definitely tell you that.

00:52:52.215 --> 00:52:54.420
You can definitely say that I'm winning right now.

00:52:55.110 --> 00:52:56.445
You are definitely well, curtis.

00:52:56.786 --> 00:53:07.476
I think it's fair for us to say that that we won today, because this has been a remarkable Conversation that you know we've been able to to pull so much from.

00:53:07.476 --> 00:53:11.507
Thank you so much for giving us the time that you did, curtis.

00:53:11.507 --> 00:53:12.711
Thank you so much for joining us.

00:53:12.711 --> 00:53:13.976
This has really been remarkable.

00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:16.083
No, I appreciate you guys for having me.

00:53:16.083 --> 00:53:19.681
Man it was, it was good, I had fun I.

00:53:20.626 --> 00:53:26.998
Well, that was, fair to say, one of the more remarkable conversations we've had on this program.

00:53:26.998 --> 00:53:40.782
It's difficult to single anything out when we've had a chance to talk to so many wonderful and impressive people, but for me, I learned so much from that conversation with Curtis Larry Shea.

00:53:40.782 --> 00:53:41.385
What are your thoughts?

00:53:41.385 --> 00:53:42.608
I love his honesty.

00:53:42.769 --> 00:53:46.884
I mean I think I'm struck so much by his honesty and his answers about.

00:53:46.884 --> 00:53:53.038
You know, oftentimes athletes as we talk about say what we think they want to hear.

00:53:53.038 --> 00:53:55.416
And I think Curtis is just so candid.

00:53:55.416 --> 00:53:59.092
Getting drafted by the Bears, he's pissed off because they don't throw the ball.

00:53:59.686 --> 00:54:07.327
You know Jim Harbaugh not going to talk to him, you know what I mean, because veterans didn't talk to rookies back then and the agent stuff.

00:54:07.327 --> 00:54:12.458
You know finding an agent and all the people around you telling you you can't hang out with your friends anymore.

00:54:12.458 --> 00:54:27.605
And he was just so candid about all of that stuff that it just really struck me and I really appreciate his honesty and his candidness about that because we often just hear players touting well, yeah, so, and so drafted me and of course I'm forever grateful for them.

00:54:27.605 --> 00:54:31.056
But he had some some gripes about it.

00:54:31.056 --> 00:54:36.094
You know he wasn't thrilled about going to the Bears but obviously Chicago is a great place if you do win.

00:54:36.094 --> 00:54:39.105
So I don't know just his candidness, his honesty.

00:54:39.105 --> 00:54:45.858
I mean we don't often get that in an interview with a former athlete and and he really lays it on the line and it's special.

00:54:46.025 --> 00:55:05.373
I said it in part one and I'll say it again I was, I was taken back by how shockingly honest he was, and I'll tell you this I'll tell you this I don't know about you, but I don't know how I would act if I saw an icon the level of Muhammad Ali, who then asks me what are your intentions with my daughter?

00:55:06.664 --> 00:55:07.489
I don't know how I would act.

00:55:07.489 --> 00:55:08.867
I think my?

00:55:09.027 --> 00:55:14.277
I think my answer would be whatever you tell me my intentions are with your daughter, sir.

00:55:14.905 --> 00:55:27.378
But the way he acted so calm and so and like maybe not calm but definitely cool, and you know just just just the way he handled himself in that situation is obviously the way he handles himself in life, etc.

00:55:27.378 --> 00:55:43.030
I mean, you know when you're, when you understand the level of icon that you're with at that moment, I mean, come on, you are, you're someone special, you understand that moment and you can obviously that he's carried that into later life as well and it's touching.

00:55:43.465 --> 00:55:51.945
He didn't grow up with a dad, and here comes Muhammad Ali, his father-in-law the ultimate father figure, the ultimate father figure, right.

00:55:51.945 --> 00:56:06.949
It was just so touching that, like you know, he didn't grow up with a dad, so he didn't really have that kind of male role model in his life, and then to have the reward, the gift of this incredible man in his life later on to kind of shepherd him Through some, some stuff.

00:56:06.949 --> 00:56:07.813
It's just very touching.

00:56:07.813 --> 00:56:10.132
It's a wonderful, wonderful story about Muhammad Ali.

00:56:10.353 --> 00:56:10.934
Absolutely.

00:56:10.934 --> 00:56:29.702
And you know, for me, one of the things that that I really connected with and Curtis and I actually connected about this on the phone before we ever did this interview was was about his choice to to walk away from his career to become the lead dad and to become the lead parent.

00:56:29.702 --> 00:56:31.753
You know I've done something similar in my life.

00:56:31.753 --> 00:56:34.547
I still feel like I'm as busy as I was before.

00:56:34.547 --> 00:56:45.001
However, in terms of the big career stuff, I've pivoted a bit because I have a wife who is a physician and has a huge job and we have a little kid.

00:56:45.001 --> 00:56:48.456
So you know, I've made a similar decision in my life.

00:56:48.545 --> 00:56:59.978
So to hear Curtis's story about what matters most to him and just to hear him talk about putting that first really really resonated with me.

00:56:59.978 --> 00:57:26.759
And you know, building upon that, you know, one of the things that also struck me was was just his journey and and how it shaped him his neighborhood shaped him, his environment shaped him, how all these different experiences along the way shaped him into this really extraordinary, really special person, and it just again opened my eyes to a different way of life, which was really really remarkable.

00:57:26.759 --> 00:57:32.858
So with that, curtis Conway, thank you so much for joining this episode of no Wrong Choices.

00:57:32.858 --> 00:57:34.751
We also thank you for joining us.

00:57:35.025 --> 00:57:46.387
If this or another journey story inspired you to think of a friend who could be a great guest, please let us know by sending us a note via the contact page of knowwrongchoicescom, as I mentioned off the top.

00:57:46.387 --> 00:57:52.358
Please support us by following no Wrong Choices on your favorite podcasting platform, while giving us a five star rating.

00:57:52.358 --> 00:58:03.641
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00:58:03.641 --> 00:58:07.735
On behalf of Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea, I'm Larry Samuels.

00:58:07.735 --> 00:58:13.016
Thank you again for joining us and always remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success.

00:58:13.016 --> 00:58:15.467
We learn from every experience.