Scott Barkham: Cultivating Talent and Success in Music (Part 2)

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, the podcast that explores the career journeys of interesting and accomplished people to uncover insights that we can use within our own journeys.

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I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

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If you enjoy the stories that we're bringing forward, please support us by liking and following our show on your favorite podcasting platform, following us on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram, twitter or Threads, and by becoming a subscriber to the show by signing up at NoWrongChoices.

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com.

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This episode is part two of our conversation with music talent manager and producer Scott Barkham.

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In part one, scott talked about how he learned the ropes of the music business while managing the River S Riversound Recording Studio for Steely's Donald Fagan and producer Gary Katz.

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Now we explore how he leveraged everything he learned to become an established music talent manager and producer.

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We pick things up with Tushar, asking Scott how he pivoted after River S Riversound closed its doors.

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So what was next Scott?

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After that?

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What was?

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next.

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Well, gary started this record label called Jake Records and you know it's not a great, that's not a great chapter.

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It was like a year and a half, almost two years of my life, I would say, like 97 to 99.

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Like, I worked with him and a couple of his partners at this label.

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We released two albums.

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One of them was a was a digital underground, underground album um, hip-hop, you know, and it was the golden era of hip-hop.

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The album was good, wasn't like you know it was, it was good and we put out a dance album, was it?

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no, it was not the humpty dance album.

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Um, it was an album called who got the gravy and um, there was like one other album that was a compilation that got released, but it just it was a tough.

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It was a tough um scenario and it didn't last long, like the money we, the company, had been basically been given a joint venture deal by jimmy ivy when he was running interscope, and once that money ran out, it was that was another one that was really hard to sustain and I remember when that was over.

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That was over, and then I'm like what the hell am I going to do now?

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And so I put myself out there for A&R jobs because that's what I wanted, that's what I, that's kind of what I wanted all along.

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And I started going for those and it was challenging.

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And then one of my dearest friends who worked in television was like look, scott, I got this production I'm doing for Sundance Channel.

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We need a production coordinator.

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I'm trying to get someone experienced to do it, but if I can't find someone, would you do it?

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How old are you at this point, Scott?

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28, 29.

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Okay, so much has happened.

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Maybe 30, maybe 30.

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no-transcript.

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It was.

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It was fast and furious.

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So yeah, like I basically wound up getting hired to do this, to do this show, and I actually had the skill set to do it, because it wasn't that different from managing a studio, you know, working in production management for production for a television production.

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But I also got to know people when I was there and the guy that was directing it did all the storyteller's things for VH1.

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And he pretty quickly sized me up as a music person and was like you need to work at VH1.

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Here's a couple of people to call.

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One of them was a girl that I had dated a few times and I so I went over there and I met with all of them and with my resume and they started calling me for work and like God bless my friend, Alex McDowell, Like she, she's, like I have an empty desk.

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She had me PA on something for her, a storytellers with Stone Temple pilots and then she was like look, my production coordinator, just like flew the coop, Will you just take, sit at the desk for a month, I'll pay you.

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Like you know, whatever it was, it was enough.

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It was better than unemployment.

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Right.

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And and like, just get your resume around the building.

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And I did and I'm and I connected with some people in the development department who saw that I was a music guy and then they started calling me if they had a show that needed bands and they would call me.

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So I did a, I did a pilot for unsigned bands that Joe Rogan hosted.

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Um.

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It was called like great show, by the way, my God.

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Yeah, Um, that was just like a pilot.

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I think it aired one time and then they and then a guy pitched later that year a game show of like for cover bands to play any song on the spot in any style, and they tasked me with finding 30 bands that could do it to compete on the show wow first we did the pilot.

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I had to find three that could do it, and then they were like we're gonna going to go to series.

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Can you find 27 more?

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Oh, my God, oh man and I did I did Like we came up with a list of songs for people to play and I had a PA who would be, you know, filming it and I'm directing them and I'm telling them what to do and it was such a surreal experience and actually like probably the single most fun gig that I had working in television and, um, it was just very satisfying.

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Paul schaefer hosted the show um.

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You know how did you find the bands?

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I put ads out in like the village voice and like other local papers.

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I like scoured the internet, which was still in its sort of early phases, but, like you could find cover bands and I discovered some people that booked a bunch of cover bands, especially for whatever reason, in the Philly area found a ton of bands there.

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So I was driving down to Philly two, three times a week and auditioning these bands.

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Some of them could really play some of them.

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I was so impressed with how, how musical they were that I was like, do you have anything original?

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And then they play me something and I just be like, okay, I get, I get why you're doing that.

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But like some of these bands were really had terrific musicians and like I know one of them has gone on to become very successful One of the musicians.

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But it was fun, it was a really good time.

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I really I enjoyed working at VH1 a lot.

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And was a really good time I really I enjoyed working at vh1 a lot.

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And while I was there I got recruited to work at fuse, which was then called much music uh, usa, which much music was.

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Like the canadian mtv and the dolan family that like owned, owns madison square garden and the knicks.

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Yeah, they owned cable vision and they had a bunch of cable networks at the time and that was one of them.

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So I got a staff job.

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It was like the first staff job with the only job I've ever had with a 401k.

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It's the only job I ever had with really good medical benefits and I have and that was a long time ago.

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So, like I'm, I'm just a sole practitioner now but like, yeah, I was a talent.

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I was a talent producer at Fuse for many years like five years but mainly doing casting and overseeing their on-air talent, so it wasn't even bands, but I maintained a connection to record labels because I was doing all their sort of online promotions and it kind of kept me connected with people at different labels, which was really helpful and everybody knew me as a music guy.

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Now Fuse, I had a couple of really good years, a couple of really bad years, because it was a little bit like junior high school and very clicky and the people that ran the network were getting fired and new people were coming in and if you weren't one of the people that was like their people, they just treated you like you were inherited and they didn't care about you and so people really clicked up and I hated that and I really like did not enjoy any aspect of that at all.

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But there were some great people that I worked with at Fuse and you know, like one of the moments, like my supervisor was like Scott, all the interns want to interview you because they want to know about your experience in the music business.

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I'm like, how do they know about it?

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Because I really didn't talk about it.

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But like I guess somebody had said you know, Scott worked for Stewie Down and I went through the whole thing in my career and also as a musician you know which I was still doing at that time and somebody asked me, like Scott, if you could leave television and just work in music, would you do it?

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And I was like, yeah, yes, I would.

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And I knew I had to leave, but I waited for them to lay me off and I knew that was going to happen because I wanted severance and I got it.

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And then during that time I started to like pick up management, clients and and really pursued.

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But by then the music business was fucked, Like there were no jobs, like the record labels couldn't make money.

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Nobody can make money.

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What year is this again, Scott?

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07, 06, 07.

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So that's when I started man, like I worked at Fuse from 01 to 06 and then started managing and it was just like, steadily like.

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I think the one through line for me is like I don't really take no for an answer when it pertains to me, even if it's's a hard path, even if there's a lot of struggle, I tend to like make my opportunities even if I'm not like I'm.

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I don't, I'm not a music mogul, I'm not the most successful manager that you're ever going to meet.

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I'm just doing it, I'm doing what I'm doing, but you're grinding, but I but I've never.

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If.

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If I can't get a job anywhere, then I'll make my own job.

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You know, it's just the way that I am.

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So what is starting?

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Becoming a manager look like.

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How do you pursue that?

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How do you put that together?

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What is that?

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You find artists you like and you reach out to them and you talk to them about their music and about what they're doing and about what their dreams and aspirations are, and they start to.

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You know they, they get that you know what you're talking about, that you speak the same languages that they speak and if they start to trust you and, like you, you have an opportunity to work with them and help, help them mold their careers.

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You know, and that's really what I've wanted to do.

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You know, it's like I just want to talk music with them and help them mold their careers and that's really what I've wanted to do.

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It's like I just want to talk music with people and help them have a sustainable career in this business.

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There was a band from the unsigned bands thing that I did for VH1.

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A publisher sent me a cassette and I was like these guys are amazing.

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They actually had a very Steely Dan-ish sort of quality to their music but like great singer really well played, incredibly well written songs and there were just four of them.

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And like I remember hitting the publisher and saying like I don't think we can put them on the show, but I love them, can you put me in touch and I got to know them and like a few months in the drummer calls me and he's like Scott, have you heard of the Neptunes?

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And I was like, no, who are they?

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Because I just my head was under a rock, I didn't know who they were.

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And he was like, well, this guy, pharrell Williams, like wants to work with us and I think we're going to be his backing band.

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And then I checked out who they were and I think we're going to be his backing band.

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And then I checked out who they were and I was like, oh, you don't have to call by Usher as the Neptans.

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Oh, you know, like just like a bunch of Jay-Z stuff that I knew that I really liked, that was really musical.

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There was like a whole series of songs that I'm like, oh, I actually really like this song.

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So I didn't know who they were but I liked them.

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So it was a sense of like I have taste, I might hear something and think it's really good, and then, occasionally, so does somebody like Pharrell Williams.

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So how do I get myself into the situation where I'm that person in the middle of that, you know?

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But I had the confidence that my I don't.

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I'm very picky when it comes to food and I'm very picky when it comes to music.

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I don't like everything that I hear.

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I don't like everything that I eat, but if I tell you to go get pizza at a particular place in New York, trust me that it's going to be really good.

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And I think like I don't like a lot of music.

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That's awesome music.

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It's just not for me.

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But if I hear something and I really love it, there's a good chance that other people will love it too.

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And I'm not saying that to be arrogant, it's just like that's one of my skills when it comes to music is I can hear something right and know that something's there, at least for me, and have a confidence to think that it will be there for other people too.

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Maybe not the masses, but but enough other people to help this artist have a career.

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Now, I had no part of this band spy mobs trajectory to being any rds backing band and like they were also, you know, at the end of the day, like they released an album on the neptune's label, star trek and unfortunately it wasn't successful and that was that.

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But it was, you know.

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But but they got that.

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You get your shot.

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You know, sometimes that's all you get.

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Is your shot.

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Yeah, and like, like, do you give up at that point or do you try to find another way forward?

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And you know those guys have all gone on to have successful careers and I think the guitar player in that band still plays with Pharrell.

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But like, my point is like I knew I had ears, I knew I found an acid jazz band and a whole scene in New York and that got two bands signed to Warner brothers when I was like 24 years old.

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I knew I trusted my taste.

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I really I still do.

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I trust my taste.

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So that's that's lending to your courageousness to venture out on your own.

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You knew you could do it.

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You had the confidence you could do it.

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Um, before we go a little further though.

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So ultimately, as a band manager, your job is to just help them flourish in their career.

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You want them to succeed at any level.

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What are the roles and responsibilities there?

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What are you responsible for in terms of being a band manager, when you're now looking for talent, because you're about to find a big talent?

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So how, what are you?

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What are you doing there to to to forward momentum their careers?

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I mean, you just there's, no, there's no, like no manual.

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There's no manual, there's no guidebook for how to you know starter guide for how to do it.

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For me it's like I hear something.

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I love it.

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I see a bunch of paths forward.

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That usually makes me want to get involved.

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Um, I have to really like the artist too, like personally.

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So, like you know my management, I found a band from London.

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It's like power trio, it was rock but it had a little bit of funk to it and they got stolen away from me by another person in the UK and it broke my heart.

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But I learned a valuable lesson and then at the end of the day, those band members became dear friends of mine.

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So, like I don't I'm not a bridge burner, you know I don't.

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I like I was.

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It was an unpleasant experience that taught me a lot early in my management time but I stuck with it.

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And then I like have been playing keyboards with a couple really good friends of mine and like low-key projects.

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And one time we were rehearsing and we went to see a band play at a little bar on Metropolitan Avenue in Williamsburg.

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This was before Williamsburg was super hot, but it was definitely like becoming a bit of a music scene.

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They were called the Pimps of Joytime awesome band and there was like a jammy funk band of Joytime awesome band and there was like a jammy funk band and the singer sounded like Prince to me and they just played great.

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And I approached them and I think the singer took my number and called me back and was like hey, you want to have coffee?

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And I said, hey, how do you feel about being on the jam band circuit?

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Would you be interested?

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And they're like, no, that's not what we do.

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And then, like two weeks later, he called me again and he said so what does that mean?

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You know, it was like you know what I'm interested in, maybe trying to pursue that, and I I had a business partner at that point um, I think you were going to ask me about it like my friend, guy ackstein, who was like similar position to me.

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We were just like we had been in the music business.

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Both of us were trying to figure out our next move in the business and somehow we connected I don't remember how and became friends and started talking about stuff and formed a management company together and the band that I found was the Pimps of Joytime.

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He found another artist and we're doing our thing.

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And between a guy who had a friend who knew jam band booking agents which we needed to find, and one of them was familiar with this band and he came to see them play in New York and sign them.

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And that guy his name he's.

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Sadly he died a few years ago.

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His name was Jesse Arato, but he really mentored me in terms of like how to put a band on the road, which I had never done before.

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So, again, this is like we're just having some organizational skills and just being able to get your hands dirty with whatever comes in front of you is helpful, because I just was like, ok, I'll tour, manage this.

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They don't have a lot of money.

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Basically, the singer was able to scrounge up money to buy a van and leave it in california, where they had their biggest sort of fan base, and we started touring and we spent a year just going all around the us, like all up and down the west coast, west and east, and all over the place.

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Like I saw a lot of america with that band, places that I've, you know, never really thought I would have visited, like I've been to 49 out of the 50 states at this point.

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Wow, all because of this band, um right, so you know, and I was only with them what's the 50th, what state is?

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missing.

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Take a guess you all get one guess no, it's not hawaii, it's not al Take a guess.

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Nebraska.

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No, been there a bunch of times.

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North Dakota Wyoming yes.

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Yes.

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North Dakota, correct.

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Nothing against North Dakota, yeah, I've been to.

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South Dakota, but not North Dakota.

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And then the next time I'm in Minneapolis for enough time to rent a car and drive to Fargo, I'm fucking going to do it.

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Yeah, I'm going to sit in a diner and have a burger and then I'm going to go back, but I'm definitely going Love it.

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So, yeah, I I worked with the Pimps of Joy time for about a year and a half and it was a really great experience.

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Did you like being on the road?

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I did, I did.

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Okay, it was exhausting but it was rewarding.

00:18:37.394 --> 00:18:51.884
And it was rewarding to be with a band that played in a bunch of places for the first time, sometimes to an empty house, that by the second or third time were selling those places out Because they were so good.

00:18:51.884 --> 00:18:52.971
And they still tour and do stuff.

00:18:52.991 --> 00:19:03.212
And the main guy in the band has another project that's brilliant, that's totally different from them, and he's a friend like even though, like he, we wound up parting ways.

00:19:03.212 --> 00:19:08.153
Like he and I have been friends for a very long time since then and again I'm grateful for that.

00:19:08.153 --> 00:19:22.540
So I think, like when I lost my, when I lost that client and I had a partner and I was like I got to bring more stuff in, I got a call from a TV talent person saying like, hey, there's a show that's going to be shooting for a few months this summer.

00:19:22.540 --> 00:19:25.974
I think you'd be a good talent director for it.

00:19:25.974 --> 00:19:41.393
It was a DJ competition for BET called Master of the Mix and I went in and I had to convince them why this you know from from westchester county should be, you know, booking djs for a reality competition.

00:19:41.472 --> 00:20:20.775
But somehow I was able to do that and they hired me and like I wound up living in a house in the hollywood hills for like a month and a half with like a few of the most legendary djs out there not like edm guys, guys like but people like DJ Scratch who is in like yeah, like DJ Scratch, victor DuPle, rich Medina, who I'd gone to like countless parties of his in New York as a music fan, and I didn't know any of these guys but I got to know them well and you know, rich became a good friend, victor became a good friend, but Rich lived in Philly and I lived in New York when the show was done.

00:20:20.775 --> 00:20:25.076
He was in New York once a week and he's like Scott, I got a gig, you want to come down.

00:20:25.076 --> 00:20:39.772
I started going and I'd get there early and he and I would have a drink at the bar and just talk about his career and his music, which we'd been doing the whole time on the show, not with me trying to be his manager, just with us becoming friends.

00:20:39.772 --> 00:20:50.098
And at a certain point, his his girlfriend, who was the mother of his son, who had been managing him, called me and said scott, would you manage rich?

00:20:50.098 --> 00:20:52.854
I just want to be a mom, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:20:52.854 --> 00:20:57.173
And then I started managing rich and he and I have been together for 14 years now.

00:20:57.776 --> 00:21:02.782
Wow, and and I'm a huge fan of what he does he's like one of the finest djs on the planet.

00:21:02.782 --> 00:21:17.180
Um, and victor dupay is still like a dear friend of mine whose taste I respect and opinion I seek, and like he lives in la, I don't see him enough but like I have just the most regard for him.

00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:28.057
I don't think I've ever seen a DJ with better prowess on the decks than Scratch.

00:21:28.057 --> 00:21:28.659
His taste is impeccable.

00:21:28.659 --> 00:21:30.643
So I had just a great experience working with those guys.

00:21:30.643 --> 00:21:32.490
It was awesome.

00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:33.711
But that show brought me to Rich.

00:21:33.711 --> 00:21:47.945
Like that show brought me to Rich and because of Rich it kind of opened up a whole world of people working in that sort of hip-hop, soul, funk music scene, Not just in New York but in Philly, in LA, and I got to know a lot of folks.

00:21:50.790 --> 00:21:57.442
So, scott, how do you build momentum off that in terms of as a music man, a as a talent manager in that sense?

00:21:57.442 --> 00:22:00.354
Right, so you're on the road with one band.

00:22:00.354 --> 00:22:12.369
You then get introduced to this essentially new genre of music not new genre, but this other genre of music where you continue to then, you know, pick up a client here, pick up a client there.

00:22:12.369 --> 00:22:16.872
How do you build momentum then when you are building out this stable of artists?

00:22:18.053 --> 00:22:32.137
It wasn't really a stable, it was like a couple people at a time, I think, when I managed the Pimps of Joy time, that was like 90% of my management energy that I could put towards something.

00:22:32.137 --> 00:22:43.903
So Rich opened me up to a whole community of people who present and perform and curate, and that was a huge thing.

00:22:43.903 --> 00:22:45.884
And also even the Pimps of Joy time.

00:22:45.884 --> 00:22:50.786
We went to Rich's parties, all of us together, different things that he would do.

00:22:50.786 --> 00:22:53.307
So it all is a little bit.

00:22:53.307 --> 00:22:54.387
There's a through line.

00:22:54.387 --> 00:23:01.380
It's soul music for me, it's soulful things for me.

00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.512
So I had other clients too.

00:23:04.512 --> 00:23:16.519
I don't need to get into it too much, but there was one guy who I worked with for a couple of years named Miguel Atwood Ferguson, who is also just a dear friend who I love, and he's an orchestrator and was was renowned for doing this tribute to Jay Dilla.

00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:25.329
After he passed, called Sweet for my Dukes, where he, they, they arranged Jay Dilla's music to a, to a massive orchestra, and it's it's a beautiful album.

00:23:25.329 --> 00:23:29.157
If you have a minute and want to check it out, it's on all the streaming platforms.

00:23:29.157 --> 00:23:54.717
And so this band from Australia had just formed and they loved Miguel and so they and, long story short, a blogger from Paris heard the band and had the guy who manages them with me do an interview with them in the backstage room of a little club in Melbourne called the Evelyn.

00:23:54.717 --> 00:23:58.530
And one of the questions was who do you most want to work with?

00:23:58.530 --> 00:23:59.905
And they said Miguel Atwood Ferguson.

00:23:59.905 --> 00:24:05.130
So this blogger hit me up and said hey, this band, you might really like them.

00:24:05.130 --> 00:24:06.271
And I was blown away.

00:24:06.271 --> 00:24:16.126
And then I hit the guy who manages them with me up, whose name is Cy Jake Gould, and I was like, hey, I managed Miguel, I'm gonna make sure he checks out the band, but I think they're brilliant.

00:24:16.126 --> 00:24:19.983
Like, if you ever need any help, don't hesitate to reach out.

00:24:19.983 --> 00:24:24.723
And like within 20 minutes he hit me back and was like you want to get on skype?

00:24:24.723 --> 00:24:29.798
And we did wow, and wow, you know he, it was very new.

00:24:29.798 --> 00:24:31.722
The band hadn't even been together six months.

00:24:31.722 --> 00:24:34.208
They had just done their first album.

00:24:34.508 --> 00:24:37.114
Very quickly, it wasn't even out.

00:24:37.114 --> 00:24:44.547
I just chanced upon it and I chanced upon it and I was listening to it and and rich walks into my apartment and he's like what are you playing?

00:24:44.547 --> 00:24:46.434
This is great, you got to give this to me.

00:24:46.434 --> 00:24:47.400
So it's again.

00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:59.539
It's like you hear something, you think it's really good, you trust your instincts, and then someone else hears it and they sort of verify or you know, like that reinforcement, yeah, it's reinforcement.

00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:02.244
And then I'm like, okay, maybe I'm on onto something.

00:25:02.244 --> 00:25:10.628
So in the conversation size, like look, I think this band could do really well and you're part of the world or in europe or maybe both, but I can't do this alone.

00:25:10.669 --> 00:25:15.849
Would you, if I'm in, if if we get along and hit it off, would you want to manage them with me?

00:25:15.849 --> 00:25:19.645
And I was like, yeah, and then I just started sharing the music with people.

00:25:19.645 --> 00:25:29.071
At that point, amazing, and it just kind of took off and it wasn't on me, it was like people like Questlove and Erykah Badu and Prince heard it.

00:25:29.071 --> 00:25:36.366
It had nothing to do with me and they're tweeting about it because it was that good and this band you're talking about is Hiatus Coyote right.

00:25:36.848 --> 00:25:37.810
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:37.810 --> 00:26:06.228
And I got to know them over Skype at first and then, like six months later, I met Napalm, the lead singer and sign person, cause they came to New York and then we went to LA and we did like nays, first under the radar performances, and they were packed and we were shocked, you know, just like at the, at the, at the reception for for, for her by herself, not even with the band, it was just really awesome.

00:26:06.228 --> 00:26:08.106
Not like it hasn't had its challenges.

00:26:08.106 --> 00:26:10.988
But I've been with Hiatus now for 12 years.

00:26:12.050 --> 00:26:13.465
Wow, what have been some of those challenges.

00:26:14.621 --> 00:26:22.805
Oh, I mean, you know the expensive trying to tour with the band from Australia around the world where the biggest audience is in the U S.

00:26:22.805 --> 00:26:28.621
You know may had some health things that she had to go through that were really difficult.

00:26:28.621 --> 00:26:37.759
You know just navigating like the stresses of of like, you know, trying to turn it into a business that's going to be profitable.

00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:42.623
You know this, this music business, if you're not making pop music it's really challenging.

00:26:42.623 --> 00:26:44.208
And then to wind up, you know to try to build a sustainable career.

00:26:44.208 --> 00:26:46.294
You know this music business, if you're not making pop music it's really challenging.

00:26:46.294 --> 00:26:47.678
And then to wind up, you know to try to build a sustainable career.

00:26:47.678 --> 00:26:56.402
You know I like, I think rich, like put it best once when he said, like I'm a working class, world class touring dj and I think, like I would.

00:26:56.623 --> 00:26:59.087
I would, I would say that about hiatus coyote too.

00:26:59.087 --> 00:27:04.003
Like nobody's gotten rich off this, but they're making a living doing what they do.

00:27:04.003 --> 00:27:07.096
They've gotten three grammy nominations and they've.

00:27:07.096 --> 00:27:09.663
They're just about to release their fourth album.

00:27:09.663 --> 00:27:14.961
You know like it, you know I'm like they signed with a major and didn't get dropped.

00:27:14.961 --> 00:27:28.430
You know like that happened, like I mean, I've experienced the worst of it with bands that like you have your dreams on something and then you get dropped and it's like how do you pick up the pieces from there?

00:27:28.780 --> 00:27:39.814
So for Hiatus, there have been a lot of serendipitous events that have been really amazing, but there's plenty of challenges, interpersonal stuff, all sorts of things.

00:27:39.814 --> 00:27:50.784
There was a point where Cy needed to step away from management for a couple of years and I did it on my own and I spent almost six months of the year for a couple of years in Australia.

00:27:50.784 --> 00:28:01.502
I mean it sounds wonderful, but when you have family and friends home and you want to have a relationship, it's not easy when you travel that much and I still travel a lot.

00:28:01.502 --> 00:28:05.932
I'm about to go on the road with them for like six weeks and I love it.

00:28:05.932 --> 00:28:08.145
I love them because they're family to me now.

00:28:08.145 --> 00:28:14.270
But but at the same time, it's it's it's to balance that with your life can be challenging.

00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:15.684
Yeah, I can't even imagine.

00:28:15.684 --> 00:28:19.830
I want to give you an opportunity to talk about some of your other clients.

00:28:19.830 --> 00:28:24.105
Obviously, hiatus coyote is a huge one, and you mentioned Richard Medina.

00:28:24.105 --> 00:28:26.519
Who are some of the other artists that you're currently working with?

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:31.049
I manage a young artist from the UK named Gareth Duncan.

00:28:31.049 --> 00:28:32.373
I found him on Spotify.

00:28:32.373 --> 00:28:38.912
Actually, Victor Dupley sent me a playlist and one of his songs was on it and I saved it.

00:28:38.912 --> 00:28:42.278
But then I was going on a yacht rock sort of dive for new artists and one of his songs popped up and I saved it.

00:28:42.278 --> 00:28:45.123
But then I was going on a yacht rock sort of dive for new artists and one of his songs popped up and I loved it.

00:28:45.123 --> 00:28:51.940
And then I like checked all the songs out that he had, which weren't many and then looked at his, at his Instagram and was really impressed.

00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:59.827
And then I reached out to him and he had a manager who he still does, who we work together, really great guy named Jack Neville.

00:29:00.088 --> 00:29:13.171
And so you know, Gareth, basically we just started talking music and then they asked me to join the management team, which I've been doing, and I helped them get a record deal with an indie label via secretly group called drink some water.

00:29:13.171 --> 00:29:26.336
He released his debut album in August and he's got an EP coming out on the same label in October and then his next album sometime probably in the first quarter of 2025.

00:29:26.336 --> 00:29:38.813
He makes kind of sort of combination of, like classic soul, new production, beat production and like a good, healthy dose of sort of that soulful yacht rock sound.

00:29:38.813 --> 00:29:54.708
He's a terrific singer, really talented producer, sweet, sweet guy and yeah, I've been working with him for about two years and then I've been working with another guy named Victor Axelrod for the last probably five or six.

00:29:54.708 --> 00:29:57.174
He's an old friend of mine.

00:29:57.174 --> 00:30:08.991
He's a keyboard player who I thought I was going to be a professional musician pretty much at one point and then I saw him play and I was like maybe don't quit your day job.

00:30:09.011 --> 00:30:11.547
Scott, Because he was so good.

00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:20.770
He was so good and such a nice guy too and I just was like you know, we became friends.

00:30:20.770 --> 00:30:24.611
But like then, like five years ago, he's like hey, scott, could you help me out with stuff?

00:30:24.611 --> 00:30:38.843
And he's not like we get together and I I'll give him advice and like help him whenever he needs it, but it's not like I'm not on call for Victor, he doesn't need that kind of attention, but when he needs me I'm there and and I just.

00:30:38.843 --> 00:30:40.328
I think he's just like he.

00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:03.955
He does these sort of really raw, classic sounding productions and he is such a tasteful musician and producer and writer Like any project that he touches is instantly better because he's part of it.

00:31:03.955 --> 00:31:07.681
And I'm just like glad there's other people I'd like to work with, but I but I'm only just me.

00:31:07.681 --> 00:31:09.287
So as long as I work by myself, I think I kind of have to keep it where it is.

00:31:09.287 --> 00:31:17.305
But if I at some point align myself with a management company, which I may do at some point, um, maybe I'll have the opportunity to like expand my roster a bit, which I'd like to do.

00:31:18.567 --> 00:31:25.134
Well I I don't know where you'd fit anybody else in, but obviously that's where the partnerships are so critically important.

00:31:25.315 --> 00:31:26.036
Yeah, totally.

00:31:52.029 --> 00:31:57.790
Scott, this advice would you have, or do you have, for somebody who's trying to break into this business?

00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:03.090
Know exactly, have a good sense exactly what you want to do within the business.

00:32:03.090 --> 00:32:05.884
Like like, have a sense, do you want to be a booking agent?

00:32:05.884 --> 00:32:08.290
Do you want to work at a record label?

00:32:08.290 --> 00:32:09.842
Do you want to be a manager?

00:32:09.842 --> 00:32:16.402
You know just, have a sense of where you want to specialize and stay focused on that to the best of your ability.

00:32:16.402 --> 00:32:19.446
Um, you know, don't?

00:32:19.446 --> 00:32:20.949
You got to believe in yourself.

00:32:20.949 --> 00:32:25.461
Like don't take I mean take no for an answer, but don't, but don't give up.

00:32:25.461 --> 00:32:32.505
One no can lead to a guess elsewhere, and I think that's a very important lesson that I've taken with me.

00:32:32.505 --> 00:32:47.355
That like goes way back to before I ever entered the music industry and I and I think that's been like that's a key sort of North Star for me in the business is just like if you want something, you got to continue to go for it, no matter what.

00:32:47.355 --> 00:32:54.602
But if you see an opportunity and it seems interesting, like see where that goes, because in another world.

00:32:54.662 --> 00:32:59.311
I might have wound up like working in television as a development executive or something.

00:32:59.392 --> 00:33:00.354
And that would have been cool.

00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:04.126
And there's part of me that still would love to try to do that at some point.

00:33:04.126 --> 00:33:15.603
So you know, it's like, if you see an opening, jump into that opening and make yourself indispensable, like nobody's irreplaceable, nobody's indispensable.

00:33:15.603 --> 00:33:24.171
But you can certainly try, and I know that I have, and I know that, like the fact that I have has benefited me more than it's not benefited me.

00:33:25.261 --> 00:33:26.086
That's great advice.

00:33:26.086 --> 00:33:32.373
The one last question that I want to ask you is about the industry at large.

00:33:32.373 --> 00:33:42.934
You came in in the 90s, an incredible period, an incredible era, starting with Steely Dan and Donald Faye and everyone else.

00:33:42.934 --> 00:33:45.503
Fast forward to today.

00:33:45.503 --> 00:33:51.894
How do you compare the two universes between yesterday and today?

00:33:51.894 --> 00:33:54.167
How much have things changed?

00:33:54.167 --> 00:33:55.926
Do they even look the same?

00:33:56.180 --> 00:33:58.248
No, they're totally different.

00:33:58.248 --> 00:34:02.568
I mean, when I came in, the music business was making the record.

00:34:02.568 --> 00:34:04.532
Labels were making so much money.

00:34:04.532 --> 00:34:09.972
If you were successful and sold, you know, had a gold record.

00:34:09.972 --> 00:34:24.014
You saw money most of the time Like labels and also labels, you know, as you change formats and especially as formats have higher fidelity, everybody's replacing their, their vinyl with cds.

00:34:24.014 --> 00:34:28.188
So people are like buying catalogs again and who's benefiting?

00:34:28.188 --> 00:34:30.271
Record labels primarily?

00:34:30.271 --> 00:34:37.280
And also the cost to make a cd was so much less than the cost to press the vinyl and they're charging more for it.

00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:54.431
So it was just like it was highway robbery in a way and there was a lot of excess and I think they took their eye off everything and I could see the writing on the wall when somebody showed me an MP3 CD player and he's like I have 200 songs on this disc.

00:34:54.472 --> 00:34:55.012
And I heard it.

00:34:55.112 --> 00:34:57.693
I'm like this sounds good, why would I yep?

00:34:57.693 --> 00:35:12.612
And then, like that was before the ipod and I was just like this is this is going to fuck shit up, yeah, and then obviously limewire and and napster that really that really disrupted the music business in a bad way and in a way that really upsets me.

00:35:12.612 --> 00:35:26.449
And streaming is is wonderful for a lover of music, but like the fact that like music is all you can eat, instead of like you save up and buy an album and you've got to listen to that album because you only have a certain amount of albums.

00:35:26.449 --> 00:35:32.170
Now we have everything all the time and it's an expectation that we're going to have it and that hurts.

00:35:32.170 --> 00:35:39.969
That hurts me as a music lover that the commodity of the recorded song has lost its value to that extent.

00:35:39.969 --> 00:35:47.690
Now, if you want to be successful, you have to be really strong on social media and engaged with your fans in that way.

00:35:47.690 --> 00:35:48.170
You have to.

00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:52.610
Like you know, touring is expensive and hard and difficult to turn a profit.

00:35:52.610 --> 00:35:53.914
Doing it's.

00:35:53.914 --> 00:35:58.286
It's really challenging, even though it's like to release your music and have it on that platform.

00:35:58.286 --> 00:35:59.889
It's relatively easy to.

00:35:59.889 --> 00:36:16.983
To break through is very challenging and and I think there's still a very valuable role for record labels to play and, in particular, indie labels play a strong role because of the way that the the deals are structured, which is different from how major labels structure their deals.

00:36:16.983 --> 00:36:24.561
It like enables an artist like have some more equity and and their masters you know as as it as they're out there.

00:36:24.561 --> 00:36:29.400
But it's challenging, it's really challenging and like I never would have seen it.

00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:35.862
I wouldn't have seen that that, like you know, tower records in the virgin megastore would cease to exist, right.

00:36:35.862 --> 00:36:40.590
That like buying new music would become more of a like novelty.

00:36:41.413 --> 00:36:49.581
And I buy vinyl all the time, but I buy used vinyl, yeah, but but that's because I'm a collector and I want the originals but, like, the artists don't make money off that, right.

00:36:49.581 --> 00:36:51.326
So, yeah, that's the.

00:36:51.326 --> 00:36:52.088
That's the part.

00:36:52.088 --> 00:36:54.572
It's just like you gotta really want it.

00:36:54.572 --> 00:36:58.429
If you're gonna do it, you gotta really want it and you gotta be prepared.

00:36:58.869 --> 00:37:06.331
And then the other thing is like, if you find something and it's your sweet spot that you do well, that resonates with people, don't resist that.

00:37:06.331 --> 00:37:10.143
You know, I say that to artists and I say it to myself.

00:37:10.143 --> 00:37:15.342
It's like, even if it's not my favorite thing to do, if I know that I do it.

00:37:15.342 --> 00:37:26.336
Well, I'm going to do it because you want to be successful and sometimes like leaning into the things that resonate for the people you need to resonate with you.

00:37:26.336 --> 00:37:27.619
You can't avoid that.

00:37:27.619 --> 00:37:32.942
But I've seen a lot of people say, no, I'm not going to do that anymore, I'm going to do something else, and that's that's really hard.

00:37:32.942 --> 00:37:41.664
It's really hard when you're always reinventing yourself, to like have a devoted following that sticks with you as an artist and then in the business.

00:37:41.664 --> 00:37:43.809
It's just knowing like I have this skill set.

00:37:43.809 --> 00:37:49.364
I'm not going to resist using it, even if it's not the thing that I love the most in this all right.

00:37:49.384 --> 00:38:04.769
So, before we started this interview, I know I noticed the amount of books and albums and and, as you said, cds on your wall behind you and it's significant, so big, so big for those of us, for those of you can see it the man has got a ladder back there to get through all of it.

00:38:04.789 --> 00:38:05.391
That's how big it is.

00:38:05.391 --> 00:38:07.103
I'm also really.

00:38:07.103 --> 00:38:09.126
I'm very vertically challenged.

00:38:09.126 --> 00:38:09.829
I'm 5'4".

00:38:10.521 --> 00:38:11.985
So I better have a ladder.

00:38:11.985 --> 00:38:12.849
It's on the top shelf.

00:38:12.849 --> 00:38:13.451
Never touch.

00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:18.590
And it looks like the kind of ladder that slides back and forth it does.

00:38:18.590 --> 00:38:19.351
How many books?

00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:25.442
How many albums and cds are in?

00:38:25.461 --> 00:38:29.048
that collection back there a few thousand, amazing if you saw rich medina's collection, it would.

00:38:29.230 --> 00:38:30.251
It puts this to shame.

00:38:30.251 --> 00:38:31.353
Wow, probably.

00:38:31.353 --> 00:38:38.273
Okay, rich has, like, has 200 shelves, like the full shelf, like I have three of them that you can see.

00:38:38.273 --> 00:38:41.766
Wow, I probably have four shelves worth of vinyl in total.

00:38:41.766 --> 00:38:44.512
He's got like 200, you know.

00:38:45.253 --> 00:38:50.251
Amazing and you continue to talk about how much you enjoy yacht rock.

00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.449
It's just one of many genres of music that I enjoy.

00:38:53.721 --> 00:38:59.490
I just want to ask you is that like at what point and I'm a lover of yacht rock too Same here, right?

00:38:59.490 --> 00:39:02.565
So it seemed like forever.

00:39:02.565 --> 00:39:07.094
The term yacht rock was a derisive term when it came to music.

00:39:07.094 --> 00:39:09.204
When did it suddenly change?

00:39:09.947 --> 00:39:10.389
I don't know.

00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:24.568
I mean I think it's somewhat derisive, but at the same time now there's an I think Michael McDonald said it in an interview he's like I'd rather have a beautiful yacht rock than soft rock, or yacht rock than blue-eyed soul.

00:39:24.568 --> 00:39:26.751
He didn't like that, you know.

00:39:26.751 --> 00:39:32.974

Scott Barkham: Cultivating Talent and Success in Music (Part 2)

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