Shaping Spaces: Stanford Professor Ethen Wood on Architecture, Teaching, and Creativity

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:02.826 --> 00:00:12.752
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, the podcast that explores the career journeys of interesting and accomplished people in pursuit of great stories and actionable insights.

00:00:12.752 --> 00:00:19.092
I'm Larry Samuels, and in just a moment I'll be joined by my co-hosts, tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:00:19.092 --> 00:00:23.643
But before we kick off, we have a small favor to ask If you enjoy what we do.

00:00:23.643 --> 00:00:32.222
Please take a moment to support us by following no Wrong Choices on your favorite podcast platform, such as Spotify, apple Podcasts or YouTube.

00:00:32.222 --> 00:00:41.231
We also ask that you connect with us on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram Threads and X, or by visiting our website at norongchoicescom.

00:00:41.231 --> 00:00:49.848
On our site, you can sign up for our subscriber list or explore our blog, which digs into each one of the episodes that we're putting forward.

00:00:49.848 --> 00:00:53.645
Your support helps us keep bringing these great stories to light.

00:00:53.645 --> 00:00:54.968
Now let's get started.

00:00:55.348 --> 00:01:03.393
This episode features the Associate Director of the Stanford Sustainable Architecture and Engineering Program, ethan Wood.

00:01:03.393 --> 00:01:08.865
Ethan also has his own practice and has worked in the architecture industry for more than 25 years.

00:01:08.865 --> 00:01:17.471
He's also a bit of a white whale for us, as we've wanted to talk to somebody from this field literally since before launching this show.

00:01:17.471 --> 00:01:20.385
Larry Shea, why don't you set this one up for us?

00:01:20.846 --> 00:01:23.060
This is a white whale, that's a great way to put it.

00:01:23.060 --> 00:01:31.313
You know, we made a list of those career choices before we started really digging into this and architect was like prominent.

00:01:31.313 --> 00:01:34.045
You know, this is a profession I don't know.

00:01:34.045 --> 00:01:48.066
It always has like a certain level of prestige associated with it, right, like you're responsible for great buildings and great structures, and it seems like very difficult to do, to be honest, like let's be real about it.

00:01:48.066 --> 00:01:50.688
If you make a mistake, everybody knows.

00:01:50.688 --> 00:01:53.629
So this is going to be exciting.

00:01:53.629 --> 00:02:12.167
I'm really I'm happy we finally got one of our white whales and this is going to be a true journey, I think, because it's something that's not going to come easy for people If you want to be an architect in this world a lot of schooling, a lot of dedication, and I'm sure that's what he's about to share with us, tushar.

00:02:12.167 --> 00:02:12.568
What do you think?

00:02:12.668 --> 00:02:49.394
Well, I'll tell you this is that, after a recent trip that I had to Chicago, I have a greater appreciation for the profession of architecture, architects in general, engineers, structural engineers because after seeing how that city treats its buildings as part of the river, part of the environment, I got to see buildings and architecture in a totally different light and I'm extremely excited, extremely excited to talk to someone who thinks in that manner, that where it's not so much of just putting buildings up in a straight line, but they are actual pieces of living art, where we are all interacting with them at the same time.

00:02:49.539 --> 00:03:02.372
For sure, and for me as a I guess currently former college professor I may be again before too terribly long I'm very curious to get his insights on what it's like to be a professor at Stanford.

00:03:02.372 --> 00:03:04.925
So with that, here is Ethan Wood.

00:03:04.925 --> 00:03:06.870
Ethan, thank you so much for joining us.

00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:08.312
Thanks for having me guys.

00:03:08.312 --> 00:03:21.050
So, ethan, we like to start every show by taking the microphone away from me as quickly as possible and giving our guests the opportunity to set themselves up independently.

00:03:21.050 --> 00:03:27.001
So why don't you tell us, and tell our audience, exactly who Ethan Wood is and what he does?

00:03:27.644 --> 00:03:33.883
Yeah, well, as you mentioned, I'm the associate director of Stanford's Sustainable Architecture and Engineering program.

00:03:33.883 --> 00:03:42.890
In that capacity, kind of running the curriculum, teaching classes, generally getting people excited about architecture.

00:03:42.890 --> 00:03:48.812
In addition, I have my own design practice, as you mentioned, but I really think of myself as a architectural acolyte.

00:03:48.812 --> 00:03:51.365
Right, I love architecture.

00:03:51.365 --> 00:03:55.282
I wake up thinking about architecture, I go to bed thinking about architecture.

00:03:55.282 --> 00:03:57.367
I do it when people pay me.

00:03:57.367 --> 00:03:59.754
I do it when nobody pays me right.

00:03:59.775 --> 00:04:01.760
Maybe you shouldn't say that.

00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:03.445
Hopefully the first more often than the second.

00:04:03.485 --> 00:04:08.003
I don't do it for other people when they don't pay me but it's like like it's.

00:04:08.305 --> 00:04:31.392
It's the thing that that I love, and you know, part of that is education, and it's education in a formal context of of academia, and it's education in a informal context of working with clients, many of whom have never built something before and are new to the process and trying to understand, like, this isn't a lot of money, how does it work, when do I get it?

00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:35.309
And kind of taking them through the process to kind of be their guide.

00:04:35.309 --> 00:04:44.471
And then, you know, my last kind of role as an acolyte is just to kind of tell people it's important, right, like nobody thinks that the ballet is not important, even if they never go to the important.

00:04:44.471 --> 00:04:47.464
Right, like everybody, nobody thinks that the ballet is not important, even if they never go to the ballet.

00:04:47.464 --> 00:04:53.988
Right, they know that that's something right, even if they don't read literature, they know novelist is important.

00:04:53.988 --> 00:05:12.581
And I think people think of the built environment, they take it for granted or they think of it as a commodity and as a real estate and they don't always think of it as something that can bring pleasure or can change the way that we interact with the environment or can move us to have emotional experiences.

00:05:12.581 --> 00:05:19.764
And so I always like to kind of guide people in that process to understand the world a little bit differently.

00:05:20.206 --> 00:05:21.172
I like the way you put that.

00:05:21.172 --> 00:05:31.108
You have the distinction of actually having the career that I thought I might have as a young child, which is really interesting, but let's talk about the very beginning.

00:05:31.108 --> 00:05:37.110
I guess, and I guess I'll ask it this way Were you an avid fan of Legos as a child.

00:05:37.110 --> 00:05:39.305
Was this the dream?

00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:42.105
I'll start by saying I hear that story a lot.

00:05:42.105 --> 00:05:48.625
I wanted to pursue architecture, but and then you know, fill in the thing I was no good at math.

00:05:48.625 --> 00:05:50.569
My parents told me to do something else.

00:05:50.569 --> 00:05:52.603
For me, lego is the gateway drug.

00:05:52.603 --> 00:05:57.112
I think Lego is the gateway drug for most people into architecture.

00:05:57.112 --> 00:06:01.651
I would qualify that now, with my students, it's more Minecraft than Lego.

00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:03.848
Interesting the new Lego?

00:06:03.848 --> 00:06:07.122
Yes, absolutely, minecraft is essentially digital Lego.

00:06:07.122 --> 00:06:43.690
But also for me, I think I had a unique childhood in that my parents separated and divorced when I was very young around two years old, and I'm an only child and they had joint custody and so every week I would move from house to house and then by the time this is San Francisco in the 70s and 80s, by the time I was 13, I had lived in 14 different homes Wow, all within seven miles of each other.

00:06:43.690 --> 00:06:57.963
But also it's kind of a lack of a place made it imperative to me to really work on making places for people that would make their life better and make them feel settled and have a place to be.

00:06:58.384 --> 00:07:05.730
Well, san Francisco is a very unique looking city in terms of its own architecture, the building design, the layout of the city itself.

00:07:05.730 --> 00:07:11.451
As a child who moved around a lot, you know from house to house, as you said, 14 homes.

00:07:11.451 --> 00:07:13.005
How did that inspire you?

00:07:13.005 --> 00:07:19.225
Or did that inspire you then to say, ok, this is, this is the environment I live in, this is the world that I see.

00:07:19.225 --> 00:07:20.805
How did that inspire you?

00:07:20.845 --> 00:07:24.067
then, moving forward, I think of San Francisco as my home.

00:07:24.067 --> 00:07:33.413
You know, like each of those houses that I lived in or apartments, I have some memories, but my memories are often of walking through the city.

00:07:33.413 --> 00:07:42.463
You know, san Francisco is a small city, seven miles by seven miles, and I feel like I know the city through the kind of the pads of my feet walking around.

00:07:42.463 --> 00:07:59.129
And even though I didn't always have an interest in history, I become more interested in the city because I realized now I can see how the city was made and see these strata and it's almost like if you guys remember in the matrix when they're looking at the screen and all of the green lines are coming down.

00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:01.502
You see the ones and zeros right.

00:08:01.502 --> 00:08:03.824
Worlds ones and zeros, and they didn't want the simulator.

00:08:03.845 --> 00:08:20.699
Like when I look at the city, I see all of the building codes, I see the planning codes, I see the redlining, I see the historic racism, I see infrastructural projects of transportation and I'm like, oh, this is how this place came to be and I find that fascinating.

00:08:21.261 --> 00:08:32.072
When you were young, moving around and seeing the city and taking everything in, and obviously that had a major influence upon your vision and how you saw the world.

00:08:32.072 --> 00:08:36.250
Were you also into design?

00:08:36.250 --> 00:08:37.211
Did you draw?

00:08:37.211 --> 00:08:44.691
Were there things that you were doing as a young kid that, whether you knew it or not, were sort of bringing you towards this field?

00:08:44.831 --> 00:08:45.980
Yeah, absolutely so.

00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:51.046
I drew all the time Because my parents were separated.

00:08:51.046 --> 00:08:57.567
When I would be with them there was no iPad right and I would go to work with them.

00:08:57.567 --> 00:09:10.664
Sometimes my mom taught English as a second language at night, and so I would go with her to her classes and she'd go into the copy room and bring out a whole bunch of paper and stick me in the back of the classroom and I'd have a pencil right or later.

00:09:10.664 --> 00:09:16.745
I was a kind of a latchkey kid and there was four channels of television on, and so I just had paper and I would just draw.

00:09:16.745 --> 00:09:32.899
For a brief period of time I thought I might be a comic book illustrator, and then I realized that I could only draw people in one pose, and that doesn't get you very far, sort of like hangman with like the hair and the arms and the legs.

00:09:33.881 --> 00:09:34.363
Yeah, exactly.

00:09:34.403 --> 00:09:36.629
It was just a very rigid, stiff pose.

00:09:36.629 --> 00:09:45.167
But I like drawing all the things in the background and so I kind of shifted away from people and started drawing architecture and that I think that served me well.

00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:55.421
I'm so glad you just said that, because the reason why I wanted to do it is because I would draw cartoons and things and eventually that became like this is going to sound really crazy.

00:09:55.421 --> 00:09:57.746
Golf course architecture.

00:09:57.746 --> 00:10:03.628
I would like design like par, nine holes and like you know just ridiculous childhood stuff.

00:10:03.628 --> 00:10:16.408
But I've read in a million places in researching this interview that architects don't necessarily need to be good at math or drawing to be successful and I'm wondering how true you think that is.

00:10:17.022 --> 00:10:18.105
I think that's very true.

00:10:18.105 --> 00:10:43.500
I mean, architecture, by many people is considered the mother art, and when I say that, I mean that it takes into consideration art, engineering, sociology, economics, politics, interpersonal relationships, the process of construction, and it's about synthesizing it and it's a team activity, right?

00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:54.556
You know, there's this kind of myth that was, I think, perpetuated by Ayn Rand and the Fountainhead, of this lone architect genius toiling away and getting his vision out there.

00:10:54.556 --> 00:11:05.414
And you know, I've never worked on a project that doesn't have dozens of hands on it, and sometimes you know hundreds, because there's so many things to do.

00:11:05.801 --> 00:11:08.240
And so you know you don't have to be good at everything.

00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.609
You have to find out what you're good at.

00:11:10.609 --> 00:11:16.648
And it's like a batting order, right, like if you had all you know cleanup hitters.

00:11:16.648 --> 00:11:24.384
You know it might be entertaining sometimes, and you know other times it'd be maddening to watch because you couldn't do anything.

00:11:24.384 --> 00:11:32.855
And so it's like, how do you get the project manager who's good at coordinating everything, how do you get a person with vision who's good at setting the framework for what the design is?

00:11:32.855 --> 00:11:41.448
How do you get a person who has the interpersonal skills to interact with the client and to put them at ease as they're working through these things.

00:11:41.448 --> 00:11:50.202
How do you have the skills, get a person who has the skills to work with a team and get a team of people to get behind an idea, and so you know it's.

00:11:50.202 --> 00:12:06.269
You find your place in that world where you feel comfortable, and then you build a team around you, or you know, if you come into an office, you're plugging the hole around them to make the team successful.

00:12:07.181 --> 00:12:08.626
I have a couple of questions for you, ethan.

00:12:08.626 --> 00:12:11.006
Yeah One what is the first thing you ever built?

00:12:11.006 --> 00:12:16.946
And I don't mean as professional as a house, I'm just like what's the first thing you ever built?

00:12:17.299 --> 00:12:22.788
My first job I got when I was 18, it was an internship at an architecture office in San Francisco.

00:12:22.788 --> 00:12:29.447
It happened because my mom was on a plane and she had the gift of gab and started talking to some guy and she said my son's interested in architecture.

00:12:29.447 --> 00:12:31.246
He said come work for us.

00:12:31.246 --> 00:12:39.375
So I worked for them doing grunt work, coffee, arranging the library, things like that.

00:12:39.375 --> 00:12:55.917
And on my last day or two in the office they had a client which was a Golden Gate University in San Francisco and they needed to put three flagpoles on a wall above a little subterranean place.

00:12:55.917 --> 00:13:00.111
And they said Ethan, we want you to design this flagpole bracket.

00:13:00.111 --> 00:13:03.288
And I thought this was the most I said.

00:13:03.327 --> 00:13:03.870
I couldn't do this.

00:13:03.870 --> 00:13:04.480
This is like too much pressure for me.

00:13:04.413 --> 00:13:04.822
I was 18.

00:13:04.822 --> 00:13:05.200
I was like you know, like said I couldn't do this.

00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:05.491
This is like too much pressure for me.

00:13:05.426 --> 00:13:10.014
I was 18, I was like you know like I can't deal with this, like shouldn't you guys be doing that?

00:13:10.014 --> 00:13:16.724
And, of course, now I know that no one wanted to spend the billable time to design a flagpole bracket give it to the intern.

00:13:16.724 --> 00:13:20.510
So I I took to making a full-scale model of this thing.

00:13:20.510 --> 00:13:25.230
I even built the bolts and and did the best that I could, and I forgot about it.

00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:27.225
Fast forward about 15 years.

00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:45.427
My then girlfriend, now wife, was working in downtown San Francisco and I'd go pick her up every day and it was right in front of this university and I would see this flagpole bracket and I can guarantee you a thousand people walk by it every day and a thousand people never looked at it.

00:13:45.427 --> 00:13:58.254
But it haunted me, it tormented me, because it looked like something that an 18-year-old did right, and that reminded me that you know, unlike other professions, our mistakes don't go away.

00:13:58.254 --> 00:14:02.671
They stay in the public realm for a long time.

00:14:02.671 --> 00:14:15.020
The lesson for that was that everything that I do has to be the best thing that I've ever done, because I don't know how long it will be there right, it might be there for a hundred years and I don't want to be like, oh, that was the day I phoned it in.

00:14:15.461 --> 00:14:17.964
This flagpole bracket is the day I phoned it in right.

00:14:19.164 --> 00:14:19.666
Is it still?

00:14:19.666 --> 00:14:22.948
You still see it, I still see it and I guarantee no one has looked at it.

00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.413
Other than you, every single time you walk by.

00:14:26.432 --> 00:14:28.495
Now I have to go to San Francisco.

00:14:28.495 --> 00:14:35.279
I have to do this, ethan.

00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:35.581
So what was it?

00:14:35.581 --> 00:14:46.350
What was that first time that you kind of felt that impassioned to yourself to say this is what I want to do, this is what my life will be like, even as a young child right, I mean, we haven't talked about your schooling yet but as a young child, what was that moment where you said this is what I have to do?

00:14:46.350 --> 00:14:47.413
Did you see a building?

00:14:47.413 --> 00:14:48.400
Was it a house?

00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:49.043
Was it a street?

00:14:49.082 --> 00:14:49.543
What was it?

00:14:49.543 --> 00:14:51.349
Well, I think it was a combination of things.

00:14:51.349 --> 00:14:52.600
I think it was so.

00:14:52.600 --> 00:15:04.605
For a part of my childhood I lived in a Buddhist monastery in the mountains of Carmel, california, and I saw workers building parts of the monastery and I thought that was fascinating.

00:15:04.605 --> 00:15:19.355
A little bit later, and I wanted to be, so I said I wanted to do this and my parents being the hippies the good hippies that they were they said wouldn't you rather do something like be an anthropologist or a poet or a writer?

00:15:19.696 --> 00:15:21.756
No, I'd like to eat no in an odd way you are.

00:15:24.441 --> 00:15:31.304
You're doing that, and then it kind of came into more clarity because I still didn't know what architects did.

00:15:31.304 --> 00:15:39.965
But there was an exhibit when I was in high school at the Marin County Civic Center, and the Marin County Civic Center was built by Frank Lloyd Wright, or was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.

00:15:39.965 --> 00:15:41.448
It was built 10 years after his death.

00:15:41.448 --> 00:15:50.485
If your listeners haven't seen Marin County Civic Center, they can go and watch the film Gattaca, which I highly recommend, one of my favorites of all time.

00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:51.865
It's the backdrop for everything.

00:15:51.865 --> 00:15:54.229
They use it in that film as a space station.

00:15:54.229 --> 00:16:03.994
But one of the things I love about the Marin County Civic Center is that it's the thought extension from the Guggenheim.

00:16:03.994 --> 00:16:06.638
It's the thought extension from the Guggenheim.

00:16:06.638 --> 00:16:34.014
So Frank Lloyd Wright did the Guggenheim in 1959, and he had this idea of an atrium and that you circle around this atrium and you move up, and then 10 years later he built the Marin County Civic Center, which was like what, if you take this building and you stretch it and you put it between two hills, then it has this kind of oval or lozenge-shaped atria and you can look down and see it, and so you can see how these thought processes develop over time.

00:16:34.014 --> 00:16:41.644
And so, kind of, going to the Marin County Civic Center and seeing this gave me this feeling that I love this space.

00:16:41.644 --> 00:16:53.974
And how can I make people feel that and it's still a question that I have how can I make people feel something that's beyond like oh it's nice.

00:16:55.059 --> 00:17:00.033
Which I'm sure comes up in every single one of your classes as you try to inspire your students.

00:17:00.033 --> 00:17:13.328
So in that moment, as you're taking in the Civic Center and as you're reflecting upon sort of where you are and as you think about OK, this is the path I want to follow, what steps do you take?

00:17:13.328 --> 00:17:23.414
Are you in high school learning how to design and preparing yourself for that career, to get into the right programs, et cetera, et cetera?

00:17:23.414 --> 00:17:24.076
How old were you?

00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.207
You know, I was maybe 15 or 16.

00:17:26.207 --> 00:17:47.041
I was fortunate that my mother knew that I had an interest in architecture and she found a high school in San Francisco that had an architectural design program, and so I went to this school that was part academic, part technical, and I did architecture classes and lost wax casting and photography as well as other other things.

00:17:47.041 --> 00:17:54.480
I applied for a program in undergrad at which was the degree track is called a b-arc.

00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:59.732
It's a five-year degree and it's a professional degree, technically the equivalent of a master's.

00:17:59.732 --> 00:18:02.288
I wasn't the best student I got.

00:18:02.288 --> 00:18:13.894
I got a's in all my creative classes and C's in all my academic classes, and so I ended up at the University of Oregon, which was a fantastic place for me.

00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:23.146
When I started I thought I knew something, and now in retrospect I can say I was probably eight out of 15 in my first class.

00:18:23.146 --> 00:18:35.585
I was below the 50th percentile, but I loved it more than anybody else and I thought I may not be the smartest, I may not be the most talented, but no one is going to love it more than me.

00:18:35.585 --> 00:18:46.313
And each term I put more and more myself into it until eventually I got the kind of top prize for my thesis when I finished in my fifth year.

00:18:46.313 --> 00:19:00.131
But maybe an analogy you guys might appreciate is I love gamers in baseball, you know, like the guys who hustle, the guys who take the extra base, whose jerseys are covered in dirt and tobacco.

00:19:00.821 --> 00:19:02.448
I love the analogy of a gamer.

00:19:02.448 --> 00:19:06.810
One of the questions we always ask on this show is were you good in school?

00:19:06.810 --> 00:19:10.648
So it sounds like you had a lot of support from your family.

00:19:10.648 --> 00:19:11.490
I mean, they're fine.

00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:14.048
She's finding this, this place for you to get educated.

00:19:14.048 --> 00:19:17.067
What were you good at and what were you not good at?

00:19:17.067 --> 00:19:19.469
Why do you think you middled in that way?

00:19:19.469 --> 00:19:19.840
Maybe?

00:19:20.182 --> 00:19:21.828
I didn't know how to work.

00:19:21.828 --> 00:19:33.125
You know, I went to high school and you know the assignments didn't always mean anything to me, and so I was like, why am I going to bust my ass for something that is just busy work.

00:19:33.125 --> 00:19:42.759
And then, when I discovered what architecture started to be, I was like I want to spend time doing this, I want to stay up all night making something Right.

00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:50.382
And you know it was this virtuous cycle, like I'd spend up all night making something Right and and you know it was this virtuous cycle Like I'd spend up all night making it I'd get some positive feedback and be like that feels nice, like I want to.

00:19:50.382 --> 00:19:59.424
I want to do this more, um, and I love the fact that it wasn't predetermined right, it's like I could want it more.

00:19:59.424 --> 00:20:11.490
If I, if I wanted to stay up an extra three hours and make something, I could make something better than somebody else because I put the effort in and I love that kind of feedback.

00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:16.451
And so it becomes almost an act of will as much as an act of creation.

00:20:18.060 --> 00:20:42.449
During that time I know you mentioned that you won an award at the end for your thesis that you won an award at the end for your thesis as you're discovering your talents and as you're developing your style and as you're developing your art, do you discover what your strengths are and what you're good at and do you zero in on those things and sort of run with that going forward or not, really that this isn't that type of profession or skill?

00:20:43.261 --> 00:20:45.084
A little bit, I got a glimpse.

00:20:45.084 --> 00:20:53.121
I mean, I think my strength, which I found professionally and it came from school, is really conceptualizing a building.

00:20:53.121 --> 00:20:57.093
What are the ideas, what are the rules, what is the rigor that goes into it?

00:20:57.093 --> 00:21:00.086
Because, as I said, so many hands touch a project.

00:21:00.086 --> 00:21:11.134
I've worked on projects where I started it and then I was no longer in the firm and it took 10 years for that project to materialize.

00:21:11.134 --> 00:21:15.987
And when it did, because the initial concept was so clear.

00:21:15.987 --> 00:21:26.980
It looked almost exactly like what I had conceptualized 10 years prior, prior.

00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:34.724
And if you imagine playing a game of telephone with a million contractors and subcontractors in the city for 10 years to have something that remotely looks like what you first did is almost miraculous.

00:21:35.987 --> 00:21:45.130
I know there's a lot of different types of architecture commercial, residential, interior design, green space, I mean.

00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:50.650
There's a million different directions you can go as you're on your career journey and your path.

00:21:50.650 --> 00:21:56.326
How are you figuring out where you're going to fit into the architectural world?

00:21:56.326 --> 00:22:01.227
Because it just feels like there's a million different choices and, as you said, it takes an army.

00:22:01.227 --> 00:22:06.673
So I would think it would be based on strength and weakness and other factors.

00:22:06.673 --> 00:22:07.861
Talk about those factors.

00:22:08.261 --> 00:22:09.564
Yeah, I mean for me.

00:22:09.564 --> 00:22:15.436
So the first job I got out of school.

00:22:15.436 --> 00:22:24.134
So when we present in school there's always presenting to a panel or a jury of architects and they come and kind of judge your work and give you feedback.

00:22:24.134 --> 00:22:38.469
And one of the people on my final thesis panel liked me and he offered me a job and it was a midsize corporate firm that did university work in Portland Oregon and I liked him very much.

00:22:38.469 --> 00:22:44.886
It was about 77 people and there's a kind of hierarchy and a kind of way of paying your dues.

00:22:45.387 --> 00:22:59.913
And I was brought in as a model builder but quickly they saw that I was a talented designer and they said well, can you work on the design of this, but don't put it in your time sheet, put it in a different time sheet.

00:22:59.913 --> 00:23:32.958
And they had me working in a janitor's closet on the 22nd floor of the office building and I was working 90 hour weeks doing that and I realized I don't like that and so then later when I moved back to San Francisco I started working for small kind of boutique design firms and they did residential work and I realized that's my love Right, like I like working with a couple or a family, I like tailoring something to their needs.

00:23:32.958 --> 00:23:41.563
I, like you know, the idea of a dwelling to me is so fascinating because it has universal constants, right?

00:23:41.563 --> 00:23:49.733
Everyone needs a place to sleep, everyone needs a place to bathe, everyone needs a place to eat, everyone needs a place to relax.

00:23:49.733 --> 00:23:58.859
And how many different variations we can get out of that with those same constraints is fascinating to me.

00:23:59.265 --> 00:24:13.921
I'm glad you just brought up working 90 hours a week, because one of the things I wanted to touch on and since you touched on it already, I mean everything I read is that architects can expect to work long hours, weekends, nights.

00:24:13.921 --> 00:24:26.510
I mean I don't want to paint an ugly picture out there for people who are aspiring architects, but I really feel like it's a lot of hard work and a lot of long hours, and is that fallacy or is that reality?

00:24:27.132 --> 00:24:51.464
I think that's unfortunate reality, with the caveat of there are many places that work nine to five, but the quality of work that they produce may be buildings and not architecture, and part of that is architecture is an inherently custom activity and people have unrealistic timeframes for getting these things done.

00:24:51.464 --> 00:24:56.071
They're writing big checks and they're saying why is this taking so long?

00:24:56.071 --> 00:25:10.491
Like you know, an average building time from concept to execution is three years, and so people are kind of waiting a long time for this stuff and then, especially in the residential realm, they watch these BS shows.

00:25:10.491 --> 00:25:11.755
Like you know, flip.

00:25:11.755 --> 00:25:21.028
My house, or my wife knows that she cannot turn on Hgtv because I just get enraged and want to oh geez.

00:25:21.068 --> 00:25:24.537
So you're that guy who's throwing beer cans at the tv at that show?

00:25:24.537 --> 00:25:25.666
Oh, totally that's great.

00:25:25.788 --> 00:25:34.088
They're like we took twenty thousand dollars and in 24 hours we did this and you're like, no, that's bullshit.

00:25:34.148 --> 00:25:37.152
You know and and you know.

00:25:37.152 --> 00:25:57.688
The other thing that's so interesting I tell my students all the time is like, like, if you think about how long, how many reps of something you have to do to be good at it, right, how many times Five, six, a dozen times you have to be good at something, or to even be competent, maybe not good, and then you say each one of those is three years.

00:25:57.688 --> 00:26:02.057
You don't even get to feel competent until you're in your 40s, right?

00:26:02.404 --> 00:26:11.769
There are no Wunderkin, 25-year-old genius architects who are changing the world, like you just can't know everything that you need to know in that time.

00:26:11.890 --> 00:26:16.917
It's a slow, methodical profession, it's a marathon.

00:26:16.917 --> 00:26:25.519
And early on, when I was still dating my wife, we were somewhere and I saw this book on this Brazilian architect.

00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.692
His name is Oscar Niemeyer and he brought modernism to Brazil.

00:26:28.692 --> 00:26:33.934
And I said, you know, just so you know, oscar Niemeyer lived to be 105.

00:26:33.934 --> 00:26:36.642
And he did that by going to the office every day.

00:26:36.642 --> 00:26:41.472
Right, and even though it's a lot of work, it's regenerative.

00:26:41.472 --> 00:26:44.487
It can be regenerative, right, if you're doing the work that you want to do.

00:26:44.487 --> 00:26:48.907
If you're just slogging away making Costco's or something like that, you're not going to work to 105.

00:26:48.907 --> 00:26:49.809
Right.

00:26:49.809 --> 00:26:56.095
But if you're making art, you know, and the best architects that I've ever met have this like childlike sense of wonder.

00:26:56.095 --> 00:26:58.371
They look at the world, they're just like what can it be?

00:26:58.371 --> 00:26:59.835
What will happen today?

00:26:59.835 --> 00:27:04.255
Right, and it becomes this rejuvenating activity.

00:27:04.255 --> 00:27:08.705
You know, that just barely balances out all the draining that it does.

00:27:09.385 --> 00:27:10.406
For sure, for sure.

00:27:10.406 --> 00:27:16.150
Now, when we talk about drive, we're eventually going to talk about your time at Stanford.

00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:38.648
So, with those two things in mind I don't want to skip over the fact that you went to the Harvard Graduate School of Design Can you talk to us a little bit about what it was like to go through the process of getting into the school and about the impact that that experience had upon you, your style and your journey going forward?

00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:39.771
Yeah.

00:27:39.771 --> 00:27:46.010
So I should qualify that by saying I never wanted to go to Harvard for graduate school.

00:27:46.010 --> 00:27:54.329
I wanted to go to a more art-focused college in Southern California called SCI-Arc, the Southern California Institute of Architects.

00:27:54.329 --> 00:27:58.836
They were very much about making things in this kind of expressive forms.

00:27:58.836 --> 00:28:02.951
And when I finished undergrad I knew I wanted to teach.

00:28:02.951 --> 00:28:09.108
I knew I needed to get a master's to teach, and my mentor suggested I work for a couple of years.

00:28:09.108 --> 00:28:15.489
So I worked for two years before I went back to grad school and I wanted to go to school in LA.

00:28:15.489 --> 00:28:24.441
And so I asked my mentor for a recommendation and he said I'll only write this recommendation for you if you apply to Harvard.

00:28:24.441 --> 00:28:33.160
And I was conflicted about it and I missed the deadline to get in.

00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:34.449
The deadline was December 5th.

00:28:34.449 --> 00:28:35.692
I didn't get it in.

00:28:35.692 --> 00:28:37.769
I was like screw it, my thesis professor.

00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:39.133
She wanted me to go to Columbia.

00:28:39.133 --> 00:28:40.737
I wanted to go to the school in LA.

00:28:40.737 --> 00:28:43.954
I'm like it doesn't matter, I'm not going to go to Harvard, I'm going to go to school in LA.

00:28:44.825 --> 00:28:53.057
A month later my application was due for Columbia and I asked my mentor again for recommendation.

00:28:53.057 --> 00:29:00.395
He said I'll only write it for you if you apply to Harvard and he said, well, I missed the deadline.

00:29:00.395 --> 00:29:02.832
And he said, well, just call them up.

00:29:02.832 --> 00:29:05.473
Sometimes they make exceptions for post-professional students.

00:29:05.473 --> 00:29:13.574
And I called up the admissions and nobody answered and I said, screw it, I'm just going to go to this school down in LA.

00:29:13.574 --> 00:29:16.890
Screw it, I'm just going to go to this school down in LA.

00:29:16.890 --> 00:29:30.685
And then, finally, the application was in February for the school in LA and I called my mentor up again and he said I'm not going to write this recommendation, I'm not kidding, I just called them.

00:29:30.705 --> 00:29:32.268
So I was like months behind, if you just call them.

00:29:32.807 --> 00:29:34.369
So I was like this is ridiculous, but I remember the story from my childhood.

00:29:34.369 --> 00:29:35.530
My mother had a cousin who was her best friend.

00:29:35.550 --> 00:30:45.038
They were very close and so I would kind of hear their stories and whether this story is actually true or not is irrelevant to the television, like around the city or on the white house knowing my retellation, I'm not surprised by this at all, and they were so tickled by this you know, this is before homeland security, this is you know everything else that they gave them a private tour of the White House of Congress, of the Senate, of the Smithsonian, and it was this kind of reminder to me that anything is possible if you, if you ask.

00:30:45.038 --> 00:30:48.194
So that's always kind of sitting in the back of my head.

00:30:48.194 --> 00:30:50.651
So fast forward.

00:30:50.651 --> 00:30:52.557
It's now three months past deadline.

00:30:52.557 --> 00:30:57.769
I call up the Graduate School of design and I say um, I know I'm late.

00:30:57.769 --> 00:31:03.366
I, I was told by my mentor that sometimes you make exceptions for post-professional students, which I was.

00:31:03.366 --> 00:31:05.490
Um, is there any way I can?

00:31:05.490 --> 00:31:07.095
I can apply.

00:31:07.095 --> 00:31:16.385
And they said well, if you get us your application by friday, we'll put it in the pile and we can't guarantee anyone will look at it, um, but at least it'll be in.

00:31:16.385 --> 00:31:19.095
So I said all right, here's my chance.

00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:22.508
And in the, in those days, you had to make a physical portfolio.

00:31:22.508 --> 00:31:39.959
So I was like printing this, this book, and and there's a story about that in a moment I'll share but I, I printed this book, put it in the mail, sent it to harvard, said I don't care, I'm gonna go to this school in la, doesn't't matter, anyway, a couple of weeks later I got a letter that says congratulations, you've been accepted.

00:31:39.959 --> 00:31:43.451
And that was how I ended up there.

00:31:43.451 --> 00:31:48.868
The other caveat to that is I had to make this book and I had like a couple of days to do it.

00:31:48.868 --> 00:31:50.772
So I was at that point.

00:31:50.772 --> 00:31:55.089
I had quit my job to work on my graduate school application.

00:31:55.089 --> 00:32:02.517
I was printing out this book, everything was everywhere, and I had to go to Kinko's to get them to bind the book right.

00:32:03.065 --> 00:32:11.853
I was going to ask if you went to your local Kinko's, because I knew Kinko's was coming up and so I go to Kinko's, which is just down the street.

00:32:11.873 --> 00:32:18.508
I'm out of my house for 30 minutes, which is just down the street.

00:32:18.508 --> 00:32:19.530
I'm out of my house for 30 minutes.

00:32:19.530 --> 00:32:26.490
I come back and the gate to my house has been jimmied open and somebody's busted my front door and so they've broken into my house in the 30 minutes that I was gone.

00:32:26.490 --> 00:32:35.308
So I immediately called the cops and the cops show up and they come in, guns blazing and they kind of search the whole house and they say you know, it's clear, you can come in here.

00:32:35.308 --> 00:32:45.556
And they're looking around and the cops open the door to my room and they go holy jeez, they really did a number on your place, like they tossed everything.

00:32:45.556 --> 00:32:50.730
And I looked at him and said actually this is just how I left it.

00:32:50.730 --> 00:32:53.535
I have to get this application to Harvard in eight hours.

00:32:58.265 --> 00:33:01.586
That's how chaotic it was and they're like all right, whatever.

00:33:01.586 --> 00:33:05.769
So I got into Harvard kind of not knowing what that would be like.

00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:31.721
It was fantastic because I didn't go for the name, but I had to present my work to some of the best architects in the world and it gave me a kind of armor that I feel that nobody can rattle me anymore, because I had to present to all of these people and kind of to be around people that are so smart that they're almost like I don't know if you guys ever watched the original Star Trek.

00:33:31.721 --> 00:33:36.423
You know those people with the kind of throbbing brains, the dry ass, yeah, absolutely.

00:33:37.204 --> 00:33:42.714
You know, I was like sometimes I would meet people and I'd be like I don't even think there's a skull in there, I just think it's all brains.

00:33:45.125 --> 00:33:46.270
Did you get into the LA school?

00:33:46.270 --> 00:33:47.609
I did, I did.

00:33:47.609 --> 00:33:52.414
It would have been funny if you said I didn't get into the LA school after all that stuff?

00:33:52.434 --> 00:34:01.426
No, no, this was your fallback option.

00:34:01.426 --> 00:34:03.936
I got into it, but at that point I was like well, I guess I got to go, and I think it only worked because I didn't want it.

00:34:03.936 --> 00:34:04.901
I think if I had wanted it, I would have choked.

00:34:04.901 --> 00:34:08.128
You know something, I would have put too much pressure on myself, I wouldn't have made it happen.

00:34:08.128 --> 00:34:11.532
And it only fell into place because I was like eh, whatever.

00:34:12.054 --> 00:34:14.137
So what's the experience at Harvard like then for you?

00:34:14.137 --> 00:34:16.780
Like well, what was that eye-opening experience like to you?

00:34:17.204 --> 00:34:21.376
Well, so for me, because I was a post-professional student, all classes were electives.

00:34:21.376 --> 00:34:28.956
I could take whatever class I wanted, and I think it was just being around amazing people.

00:34:28.956 --> 00:34:30.873
They would fly in architects from all over the world.

00:34:30.873 --> 00:34:39.130
They would come from Switzerland, from Spain, from Japan, from England and teach, and these people that I'd read in books are right there.

00:34:39.130 --> 00:34:43.750
And just to kind of be around them, I think was the thing that was most amazing.

00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:50.606
It was also incredibly competitive in a way that I wasn't ready for.

00:34:50.606 --> 00:34:53.173
Again being raised by hippies on the West Coast.

00:34:53.173 --> 00:34:56.567
I was just like you know what again being raised by hippies on the West Coast.

00:34:56.567 --> 00:34:57.409
I was just like you know what?

00:34:57.409 --> 00:34:58.431
Everybody loves everybody else.

00:34:58.431 --> 00:34:58.711
You do you.

00:34:58.711 --> 00:35:01.858
It'll be great, and I was quickly disavowed of that.

00:35:02.244 --> 00:35:03.447
Did it help in some way, though?

00:35:03.447 --> 00:35:15.896
If you're raised to not be competitive and you're put into a competitive environment, do you roll with the punches better than other people and take certain aspects of that less seriously in a way that can be helpful?

00:35:16.364 --> 00:35:25.110
Yeah, I think so, and also because I didn't need that degree, and so I was like I'm here for me, everything is going to be to make me better.

00:35:25.110 --> 00:35:33.612
I'm going to work like hell because I like it and I have fun doing it, and so it was totally freeing.

00:35:33.612 --> 00:35:36.445
And now I look back and it was like the best time of my life.

00:35:36.445 --> 00:35:39.396
At the time I thought I was miserable, but so that's.

00:35:39.577 --> 00:35:42.666
That's fascinating that you say I was there for me.

00:35:42.666 --> 00:35:53.313
Um, in my mind I'm thinking I'm going to one of the best schools in the country and this is going to line you up for whatever comes next professionally.

00:35:53.313 --> 00:35:57.992
Um, did you have that in your mind or you're like I'm just learning my craft right now, I don't even care about?

00:35:58.032 --> 00:35:59.106
that I mean.

00:35:59.106 --> 00:36:07.695
So I did think that I thought that the world was going to throw itself at my feet and I was going to get a golden ticket anywhere it's Harvard.

00:36:07.695 --> 00:36:11.175
And then I realized in Boston everybody went to Harvard.

00:36:11.175 --> 00:36:17.507
You know, throw a stone and not hit somebody who went to Harvard, so it wasn't special there.

00:36:17.507 --> 00:36:19.472
And then my ultimate goal was to teach.

00:36:19.472 --> 00:36:38.257
And I came back to San Francisco, where my family is, and I thought that all the universities here were going to open the door and the angels were going to sing and, and, and I applied to every university and, and for 10 years I couldn't even crack the door right that they just were hiring people that they knew or had worked for them or were in their circles.

00:36:38.257 --> 00:36:43.157
Wow, and it took quite a long time to get into the realm of teaching.

00:36:43.157 --> 00:36:48.498
So it helped a lot, but it wasn't an all-access pass.

00:36:48.498 --> 00:36:53.655
It just meant that people gave me a little bit more credibility than I would have had otherwise.

00:36:54.135 --> 00:36:54.896
I'm fascinated.

00:36:54.896 --> 00:36:57.934
You said it a couple of times I wanted to teach, I wanted to teach.

00:36:57.934 --> 00:37:02.047
I mean, you've decided early on in your career that this was the path you wanted to go down.

00:37:02.047 --> 00:37:07.646
What about teaching was the goal for you and why you wanted to go there?

00:37:07.646 --> 00:37:13.567
And why not try to pursue something else that maybe caught your eye in the architectural world?

00:37:13.567 --> 00:37:23.094
Because, as we've already said, there's a whole world out there of different things you could be doing with those degrees and with your knowledge and with your passion, which you truly have at this point.

00:37:23.094 --> 00:37:25.646
But your point blank I was going to teach.

00:37:26.106 --> 00:37:29.293
Part of it is a naive optimism.

00:37:29.293 --> 00:37:34.630
I mean, I think architecture, at its essence, is an act of optimism.

00:37:34.630 --> 00:37:39.230
It's like you're looking at the world and you're like you know what it can be better.

00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:42.378
You know who's going to make it better this guy right.

00:37:44.186 --> 00:38:07.958
Not a whole amount of hubris just in the act of doing it, but also in the academic realm or in teaching, like you're stoking that fire in somebody else, like it's still my favorite thing to do, like if I can make somebody excited about something, it's like a feeling I can't even describe, where something goes off in their head and you're like they've found something.

00:38:08.018 --> 00:38:13.277
They've found something that has made their life better in every way, some direction, some meaning.

00:38:13.277 --> 00:38:32.833
I think it's about meaning, right, because architecture or the building industry is a service industry and a lot of times that can be like I'm going to pay you X dollars and you're going to renovate this or build this thing and we want it to look good and that's enough.

00:38:32.833 --> 00:38:45.489
But in academia, there's this idea that it can be something more than that, right, and I had these experiences at school where it's like I want to be this, I never want to leave this place.

00:38:45.489 --> 00:39:00.920
In my spare time I'm reading books about architecture, right, and it's this thing that just kind of gives me hope, right, that it's so hard to do, but the fact that some people can do it is almost miraculous.

00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:10.512
And so this idea that I wanted to kind of contribute and inspire people was always a part of the goal for me.

00:39:11.106 --> 00:39:18.048
So the 10 years that you're waiting to get into the classroom, from harvard to your first classroom, what's going on in those 10 years?

00:39:18.048 --> 00:39:18.931
I?

00:39:19.371 --> 00:39:37.559
was working for a number of boutique design offices in san francisco doing beautiful, award-winning, uh, really expensive houses in the first dot-com boom in san francisco are you the reason why no one can afford to live in San Francisco anymore?

00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:46.733
Not exclusively, but I'm a part of it, that's great and I love that and that was fun.

00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:56.014
But teaching also allows me access to merge worlds and to break boundaries that are not there.

00:39:56.014 --> 00:39:59.387
Like I can talk about Gattaca, right, I can talk about comic books.

00:39:59.387 --> 00:40:02.396
I can talk about history and current events.

00:40:02.396 --> 00:40:04.307
I can talk about street art.

00:40:04.307 --> 00:40:05.590
You know all of these things.

00:40:05.590 --> 00:40:07.996
You know I could talk about abstract expressionism.

00:40:07.996 --> 00:40:18.389
I can bring all of these things into a discussion of architecture, where in the profession, you can do that for a certain period of time, and then someone's like, yeah, but where's my thing?

00:40:18.389 --> 00:40:20.275
I just want my thing.

00:40:20.275 --> 00:40:24.847
And so it allows me to share and to be nourished.

00:40:24.847 --> 00:40:39.056
And the funny thing about this is, after teaching for many years, my wife said, you know it was coming to be summer break, and wife was like, oh, and I was like wait, aren't you excited?

00:40:39.056 --> 00:40:40.719
Summertime we can, we can be together.

00:40:40.818 --> 00:40:50.528
And she's like you're so grumpy during the summer oh geez like I just can't wait for the summer to be over, so school starts and you can be yourself again.

00:40:50.528 --> 00:40:57.179
And and this just lured me and I was like what do you mean?

00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:59.594
And she's like you're not yourself unless you're teaching.

00:40:59.594 --> 00:41:03.490
And I said how long have you known this?

00:41:03.490 --> 00:41:04.454
And she said forever.

00:41:04.454 --> 00:41:09.110
I thought you knew this and I was like, no, that's so interesting.

00:41:10.829 --> 00:41:11.833
So how did you break in?

00:41:11.833 --> 00:41:15.795
How did you get that first gig and open up this world for yourself?

00:41:16.125 --> 00:41:22.306
So I mean, I think, like many things, it is being prepared and being at the right place at the right time.

00:41:22.306 --> 00:41:27.617
And so I had tried for all of these universities and I sent my resume every year.

00:41:27.617 --> 00:41:31.255
I'd send them to four or five universities in the Bay Area and I wouldn't get a call.

00:41:31.255 --> 00:41:42.335
And then at one point we were living in a neighborhood in San Francisco near Golden Gate Park, and there's a university three blocks from my house called the University of San Francisco.

00:41:43.358 --> 00:41:44.179
Oh wow, Great school.

00:41:45.905 --> 00:41:54.090
Great basketball players have come out of there, many other things Bill Russell the greatest of all and so I wrote them on a whim.

00:41:54.090 --> 00:41:57.056
I said, said hey, I just live around the corner.

00:41:57.056 --> 00:42:04.068
I'd love to, I'd love to kind of come by and learn what you guys are doing and if you ever need somebody, give me a call.

00:42:04.068 --> 00:42:09.487
And the head of the program wrote me back and said we just had somebody take sabbatical.

00:42:09.487 --> 00:42:11.331
I've been looking for somebody to take his class.

00:42:11.331 --> 00:42:13.436
Uh, would you be willing to do that?

00:42:13.436 --> 00:42:16.192
And I said absolutely, uh.

00:42:16.192 --> 00:42:22.112
And and that was what kind of opened the doors.

00:42:22.192 --> 00:42:29.036
So what did you take from your college experience, or even those 10 years, and bring to the classroom on those first few days?

00:42:29.036 --> 00:42:32.186
I mean, I imagine you had to get your feet wet with the teaching, right.

00:42:32.186 --> 00:42:43.190
I mean, some people are naturals, but that's a big shift from going and doing you know the actual work to inspiring people, showing people, teaching people, that kind of thing.

00:42:43.190 --> 00:42:44.635
How did you make that transition?

00:42:45.666 --> 00:42:48.092
It was humbling, I thought, because I so.

00:42:48.092 --> 00:42:50.197
I had worked in those 10 years.

00:42:50.197 --> 00:42:51.666
I worked for these boutique offices.

00:42:51.666 --> 00:43:00.130
Our projects had won dozens of national, local and regional design awards, been published in dozens of magazines.

00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:07.074
I thought I was kind of at the apex of my career, and when I went to teaching, my wife was like you know, this is a different profession.

00:43:07.074 --> 00:43:08.266
I said no, it's not, it's the same.

00:43:08.266 --> 00:43:13.795
And I quickly realized that dealing with 18 olds is different, it's very different.

00:43:16.780 --> 00:43:24.240
But you know, I the thing that kept me going was that I remember almost nothing from my first architecture class.

00:43:24.722 --> 00:43:36.224
There's like three things my professor said to me, but it got me just curious enough that I wanted to learn it on my own, and so I decided what I was going to do is I was going to share my enthusiasm.

00:43:36.224 --> 00:43:44.570
I was going to kind of light the spark, and if that spark catches and burns within somebody else, that's great, and if it doesn't, that's fine too.

00:43:44.570 --> 00:43:51.650
And so it's this process of sharing what you love, and that's become kind of a mantra for me.

00:43:51.650 --> 00:44:10.092

Shaping Spaces: Stanford Professor Ethen Wood on Architecture, Teaching, and Creativity

Listen On

Recent Episodes

Related to this Episode

Building a Career from LEGO Bricks to Architectural Excellence – The Journey of Ethen Wood