July 18, 2023

The Sound of Success (Part 2) with Grammy Award-Winning Mix Engineer, Ariel Borujow

The Sound of Success (Part 2) with Grammy Award-Winning Mix Engineer, Ariel Borujow
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Season 2

Part 2 of our conversation picks up with Ariel absorbing the wisdom of his mentors in the studios of Puffy and The Cutting Room. These lessons, along with the unwavering support of close friends and family, gave Ariel the confidence he needed to take control of his journey.  Hear how he set up his first studio at home (in a NYC studio apartment), served meals to his clients (who always seemed to show up at dinner time) and eventually made the leap to the suburbs in pursuit of a better life for he and his family.  

 Ariel also reveals shocking experiences from in the studio, complete with celebrity “encounters”, fights, and other antics that come with life in the music industry. He serves up some unexpected but intriguing parallels between his passion for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and mixing records. And, shares his well-earned wisdom for those hoping to follow in his footprints. Ariel cannot overstate the importance of relationships and the invaluable influence of good mentorship. 

Get ready to be inspired and enlightened by Ariel Borujow’s multi-platinum Grammy award winning journey through the music industry. Ariel has supported many of music’s biggest names including Puffy, Madonna, Andrea Bocelli, The Chainsmokers, Mac Miller and countless others.  


To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - Journey of a Grammy-Winning Mix Engineer

12:39 - Analog to Digital Engineering and Remote Mixing Transition

25:19 - Balancing Family and Work in City

31:03 - Music Industry Life and Experiences

36:40 - Music Business Experiences and Advice

43:16 - Career Advice From Mix Engineer

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.846 --> 00:00:10.968
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, a podcast about the adventures of life that explores the career journeys of successful and interesting people.

00:00:10.968 --> 00:00:16.132
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by the other fellas, tushar Saxena and Larry Shag.

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If you enjoy our show, please support us by clicking follow on your podcasting platform and by giving us a five star rating.

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You can also learn more about us and connect by visiting our website at knowwrongchoicescom, or look for us on Instagram, facebook, twitter and now YouTube by searching for no Wrong Choices, or always, you can hear feedback about recent episodes and to meet new people, including potential guests.

00:00:39.064 --> 00:00:55.332
This episode is part two of our conversation with Grammy Award winning mix engineer, ariel Bourgeau, focusing upon how we built this career after breaking through Larry Shag as Ariel's friend and former colleague, you are once again the perfect person to lead us into this.

00:00:55.799 --> 00:01:11.070
Yeah, I would highly recommend that anybody who hasn't listened to episode one of Ariel's story go back and listen, because I think he really talks about his humble beginnings, really his willingness to do anything, and he really tells that story in a very thoughtful way.

00:01:11.070 --> 00:01:13.471
So I encourage you to go back and listen to part one.

00:01:13.471 --> 00:01:19.031
And as far as where we're about to go on his journey, he's a professional right.

00:01:19.031 --> 00:01:20.103
He's becoming a pro.

00:01:20.103 --> 00:01:30.209
He knows his craft at this point and he's honing it and becoming a great artist, because that's essentially what a recording engineer is is a great artist.

00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:37.808
You're literally taking a musician's vision and you're bringing it to life, and it takes a special person to do that.

00:01:37.808 --> 00:01:41.072
It takes another artist to make another artist's vision come to life.

00:01:41.072 --> 00:01:47.001
Because you are, you gotta be savvy, you gotta be quick, you gotta be smart, you gotta have great ears we talked about.

00:01:47.001 --> 00:01:59.590
But Ariel also has this thing about him you just wanna work with him, you know, and he just makes you feel better about everything you're putting together, and I think that's what he's about to tell us about is how he became that professional.

00:02:00.060 --> 00:02:05.057
I think part one of what we heard was here's a guy who learned confidence.

00:02:05.057 --> 00:02:10.290
He was able to kind of gain confidence in every job he did, every place he worked.

00:02:10.290 --> 00:02:13.549
He was able to learn just a little bit more, learn just a little bit more.

00:02:13.549 --> 00:02:23.671
The more artists he worked with, the more confidence he grew professionally, the more people listened to his opinion and then, obviously, he was able to give his opinion more and more.

00:02:23.671 --> 00:02:31.774
And then, yes, we go from, you know, ariel Bourgeois, the technical wizard, to Ariel Bourgeois, the artist.

00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:33.506
Yeah, and he's living out my dream.

00:02:33.506 --> 00:02:36.149
You know, this is what I wanted to do for a living, guys.

00:02:36.149 --> 00:02:39.186
I wanted to be a recording engineer and there's.

00:02:39.186 --> 00:03:09.234
You know it's grueling, it's long hours, it's tireless, it's sometimes very thankless, you know, but there's a certain reward that comes with setting up a microphone and having someone sing into it or play an instrument into it and putting those pieces together and then a year later you're in the supermarket and that song comes on and you're like man, I saw that thing from the beginning to the end and there's a real reward there that Ariel gets to carry out daily.

00:03:09.234 --> 00:03:11.366
So how amazing is that?

00:03:11.366 --> 00:03:12.925
So he's living my dream.

00:03:12.925 --> 00:03:16.310
I'm super proud of him and I can't wait to dig into this part of his tale.

00:03:16.980 --> 00:03:19.889
Well, that sounds great, and I'm going to go a little bit simpler.

00:03:19.889 --> 00:03:23.409
I can't wait to hear the craziest things he's seen in the studio.

00:03:23.409 --> 00:03:27.450
I want to hear some of the highlights in terms of some of the great sessions he's been in.

00:03:27.450 --> 00:03:29.646
So with that, here is Ariel Bourgeois.

00:03:29.646 --> 00:03:35.902
We rejoin the conversation with Ariel discussing the importance of being good with people and a good listener.

00:03:36.379 --> 00:03:49.384
When I was at Puffy's I was working with some of the top engineers in the game and at the time that's why I sent a resume there was because I heard those records and notorious BIG and all those and I was like man, these things sound great, like I want to learn from them.

00:03:49.384 --> 00:03:52.991
And I remember one time one of my mentors there who I was assisting.

00:03:52.991 --> 00:03:59.766
He said to me don't worry about what I'm doing on the console, watch how I interact with the client.

00:03:59.766 --> 00:04:01.163
That's more important.

00:04:01.163 --> 00:04:15.627
And that was like a big thing where now the kids that are coming up now are all working from home and I've seen it happen where their ego gets in the way, like who is this guy to tell me my mix ain't good?

00:04:15.627 --> 00:04:18.105
But that's not what it's about.

00:04:18.105 --> 00:04:25.788
Your mix could be great, but did you capture the feeling that the artist intended Because maybe it shouldn't sound so good?

00:04:25.788 --> 00:04:28.427
Maybe that's not what they're looking for?

00:04:28.427 --> 00:04:34.071
So part of the job is being like I call myself a sonic psychiatrist Great term.

00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.485
Oh my God, but it's really trying to fit.

00:04:38.485 --> 00:04:48.146
That's the hard part is figuring out, and sometimes you figure it out and sometimes you don't, but there's conversations and I feel like between Puffy and the cutting room.

00:04:48.146 --> 00:04:53.987
Once those two came into play I was able to get my confidence.

00:04:53.987 --> 00:05:18.452
And after the cutting room, you know, the last real gig I had as an assistant was RPM, and RPM was a legendary studio which were Billy Joel and what's his name Phil Ramon did all those early billiol records and it was on 12th between university and fifth in this building on the top floor.

00:05:18.452 --> 00:05:30.024
This guy was there since like the late 70s and I think he was paying peanuts there and it was like, I mean, harrison Ford lived like three floors down and this guy had the like the penthouse.

00:05:30.024 --> 00:05:33.406
It was sick, the studio it looked real retro and whatever.

00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:47.807
And I was there for quite a bit with this other guy, another engineer named Nick Hard, who's actually we're still really really good friends and he's Snarky Puffy's engineer.

00:05:47.807 --> 00:05:59.672
So he's, like you know, one of a few Grammys and doing well talented guy and we were there together and I ended up getting canned from there after 9-11.

00:05:59.672 --> 00:06:06.064
Because there was one room, two assistants and the work wasn't coming in and Nick was there before me.

00:06:06.064 --> 00:06:13.500
So I got fired and after that I said I'm never going back into a studio and I'm going to go freelance.

00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:15.886
Now, meaning I didn't want to work for another facility.

00:06:15.886 --> 00:06:29.548
And I went freelance and at the time my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time we were living we moved from Brooklyn in August of 2001,.

00:06:29.548 --> 00:06:31.434
Luckily because I lived in.

00:06:31.434 --> 00:06:36.850
I don't even know why I lived there, but we had an apartment on the Brooklyn promenade.

00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:38.565
It was a studio apartment, oh wow.

00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.529
Well her sister went to Brooklyn Law and got it through that and kind of like, grandfathered a sin.

00:06:43.589 --> 00:06:48.550
I remember that place, beautiful view of Manhattan Really nice, oh you were there, larry, I was there.

00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:54.281
I went to that apartment once, I think, gary, I don't know what context but I remember that apartment I came to my fourth.

00:06:54.341 --> 00:06:55.865
was it my fourth of July party?

00:06:55.925 --> 00:06:57.348
I don't know, yeah, maybe, maybe.

00:06:57.348 --> 00:06:59.072
I remember the place was banging man.

00:06:59.072 --> 00:06:59.533
I loved it.

00:06:59.634 --> 00:07:02.060
But it was like it was a studio apartment.

00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:09.632
It wasn't big, but what made it feel big was the bay window facing like every I mean it was ridiculous, it was insane.

00:07:09.632 --> 00:07:11.314
Yeah, literally the Twin Towers were there.

00:07:11.314 --> 00:07:19.050
So luckily I didn't see that, but we moved to a story and after that I remember telling my wife I said, man, whatever view we get, here is going to suck.

00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:21.725
I don't know if you guys watched it, was it?

00:07:22.086 --> 00:07:25.524
friends where they had the view of ugly fat naked guy or something.

00:07:25.545 --> 00:07:35.149
Yes, Well that's what we had in the studio, literally facing a brick wall with one window there, and it was like this like hoarder guy, like oh, it's horrible.

00:07:35.149 --> 00:07:41.711
But so from that point on I remember she was going to Hunter College and her father was.

00:07:41.711 --> 00:07:52.389
She was going to get a computer for her birthday and I said, hey, maybe we can get it so we can both use it and I could get a Pro Tools inbox and start running sessions.

00:07:52.389 --> 00:07:59.663
And I built it up to add all this RAM and stuff, because the Dell computers you could modify them.

00:07:59.663 --> 00:08:00.766
And that's what I did.

00:08:00.766 --> 00:08:11.860
I got a inbox and I started running $15 an hour sessions out of my apartment and with who Like.

00:08:11.880 --> 00:08:12.805
Well, who were your clients?

00:08:12.805 --> 00:08:15.427
Rappers, man?

00:08:15.427 --> 00:08:32.873
Yep, my client was an artist named Kel Spencer who was actually I don't know if you guys are familiar with the term ghost writer, but a ghost writer is essentially somebody that writes, gets paid but isn't really like the face of the song.

00:08:32.873 --> 00:08:34.381
They're just like you know.

00:08:34.381 --> 00:08:37.347
They get their publishing but they're not.

00:08:37.347 --> 00:08:39.951
You know, nobody knows they wrote it Right, right, right, okay.

00:08:41.961 --> 00:08:45.749
Sort of like the writer of Donald Trump's Art of the Deal, Exactly, basically.

00:08:45.749 --> 00:08:47.653
Oh God, I'm gonna talk about that, all right.

00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:49.643
So we ended up.

00:08:49.643 --> 00:08:59.148
It ended up being Will Smith's ghost writer and he started booking sessions to do like drop, like you know.

00:08:59.148 --> 00:09:07.687
You know what do they call it Like demo songs for Will, and from that it turned into him working on his artist stuff.

00:09:07.687 --> 00:09:08.630
And then word of mouth.

00:09:08.630 --> 00:09:10.947
And my business was always built on word of mouth.

00:09:10.947 --> 00:09:17.913
It was always like it was always just someone telling someone else.

00:09:17.913 --> 00:09:28.629
And then the next thing, you know, they would show up at my house and I do sessions and then my wife would come home from her nine to five and cook dinner and if a client was there she'd cook dinner for them and they'd eat dinner.

00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:34.869
And you know, it started getting to this thing where I started realizing people were booking sessions closer to dinner time because they wanted a free meal.

00:09:35.028 --> 00:09:35.570
Oh, look at that.

00:09:36.942 --> 00:09:37.947
And whatever it worked.

00:09:37.947 --> 00:10:08.065
And I was there for for a little while and then after that we moved to a two bedroom apartment in Astoria so I can use a secondary bedroom as a studio, and I built that out and I started charging $25 an hour and I started getting more sessions and people would show up and sometimes I had like really good artists coming in, you know, like Master Ace and all these people that I had no idea would show up at my house and I was there for a while.

00:10:08.065 --> 00:10:24.249
And then one day I was looking on Craigslist and I found this, this ad that was like built studio with a booth, $600 a month, and I remember I was like I can't afford that right now, you know.

00:10:24.249 --> 00:10:28.389
So I remember my wife comes home and she pushed me into it.

00:10:28.389 --> 00:10:35.509
She goes listen, it's first and last month that's $1,200, that's the worst thing that can happen.

00:10:35.509 --> 00:10:39.208
So if I were you, I would say try it.

00:10:39.208 --> 00:10:42.005
Worst case you lose $1,200,.

00:10:42.005 --> 00:10:44.294
You say you tried it and you you move on.

00:10:44.294 --> 00:10:47.044
You know, but something tells me you're not going to fail.

00:10:48.019 --> 00:10:52.543
So I did it and I didn't fail and I built up this one.

00:10:52.543 --> 00:10:55.631
It was in a 50 room rehearsal space in Astoria Queens.

00:10:55.631 --> 00:11:05.335
And the funny thing is is the guy who owned it is still one of my good friends, Tommy, and later on, years later, he helped me build my studio in my house.

00:11:05.335 --> 00:11:09.187
Because he understood what it was to build a studio, because he built it.

00:11:09.187 --> 00:11:20.101
So I had this studio for a few years and at the time I got my first Grammy nomination for a mix.

00:11:20.101 --> 00:11:27.720
I did, and instead of going after the A level artists, like most egotistical people, would being like oh, I got a Grammy now.

00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:29.019
Now I'm going to make millions of dollars.

00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:30.480
Who was your Grammy nomination with?

00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.081
It was for TI.

00:11:32.081 --> 00:11:32.601
Okay.

00:11:33.142 --> 00:11:34.023
Oh, wow, ti.

00:11:34.023 --> 00:11:58.145
At that point, yeah, I ended up two of my friends at the time had like a small PR company and I said, do me a favor, I want you to like put a blast out, an email blast to independent artists saying that now you two can get mixed by a Grammy nominated, you know, multi-platinum engineer Smart.

00:11:58.145 --> 00:12:03.071
And I did, and the work started coming in and I wasn't charging that much.

00:12:03.071 --> 00:12:04.889
So, yeah, I could have gone.

00:12:04.889 --> 00:12:11.476
I tried a manager and she got me one gig in a month and it was decent money.

00:12:11.476 --> 00:12:29.676
But you know, let's say it was like 65 an hour and I worked like eight hours or I can charge, you know, anywhere between 350 to 500 a mix at the time, working out of the comfort of my you know my own place, and I was getting, like you know, four or five mixes a week.

00:12:29.676 --> 00:12:31.269
Who's doing better, right?

00:12:32.172 --> 00:12:35.552
And at that time I guess your prices have gone up now, right?

00:12:36.345 --> 00:12:38.971
I mean they have, but they have.

00:12:38.971 --> 00:12:50.015
But the difference, the difference with me, is I was the last breed of engineers that came from the analog days, so a lot of the engineers.

00:12:50.015 --> 00:12:56.232
When everything moved over to digital, the prices were coming down because people had their own studios at the time, right?

00:12:56.232 --> 00:13:02.309
So my prices never got up to like the crazy $6,000, $7,000 a song that they did.

00:13:02.309 --> 00:13:07.208
It was much lower than what they were used to, but I was able to.

00:13:07.208 --> 00:13:08.673
I was like wow for me.

00:13:08.673 --> 00:13:11.113
I was like shit, I want the lottery here, you know.

00:13:11.725 --> 00:13:17.932
And they were complaining that they weren't getting enough and people were undercutting them, but really the overhead was much lower, you know.

00:13:17.932 --> 00:13:21.589
You know you didn't have to book a studio and you didn't have to.

00:13:21.589 --> 00:13:25.211
You know you had to pay studio time and then an engineer feedback in a day.

00:13:25.211 --> 00:13:26.149
That wasn't the case.

00:13:26.149 --> 00:13:38.701
I kept it all and just paid $600 a month to my rent, every month, you know, and that to me, like once I had that studio, that changed.

00:13:38.701 --> 00:13:49.371
So I was there for a little while and then I remember someone sent me another ad on Craigslist Craigslist was awesome back in the day and I remember someone sent me it actually was useful at some point, right.

00:13:49.765 --> 00:13:55.812
Very useful and I mean it was basically like social media for jobs and all this other stuff.

00:13:55.812 --> 00:14:08.254
So someone sent me an ad that said new high-end recording facility opening up in Manhattan looking for an engineer mix engineer with credentials.

00:14:08.254 --> 00:14:10.472
I said cool, what's gonna hurt?

00:14:10.472 --> 00:14:32.524
So I ended up sending them in a resume and I had an interview and I went in and it was in Harlem on 125th and Park and it was the old studio of Ornette Coleman, the famed saxophone player that was on Atlantic years ago in the 60s and 70s or maybe even earlier in the year.

00:14:32.585 --> 00:14:33.548
I remember that place too.

00:14:33.548 --> 00:14:34.933
Yeah, great studio.

00:14:35.125 --> 00:14:35.606
It was called.

00:14:35.606 --> 00:14:37.352
Harmilotic was the name of it.

00:14:38.044 --> 00:14:44.913
So I met this guy there and we worked out a deal where he's like I can rebuild the second room for you.

00:14:44.913 --> 00:14:55.533
And at the time let me go back a little bit, tommy I outgrew my small room in a story and Tommy said I'll build you a new room here.

00:14:55.533 --> 00:14:56.716
What do you want?

00:14:56.716 --> 00:15:05.408
I said I need an office, cause at the time my wife was like I'll quit my job and manage you full time because I was double booking people and I'm not much of a.

00:15:05.408 --> 00:15:07.350
You know, I know how to sell myself.

00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:08.808
I'm.

00:15:08.808 --> 00:15:12.791
I don't have the art of the deal figured out like Trump, or maybe I do actually.

00:15:12.890 --> 00:15:13.494
Maybe I can't go.

00:15:13.494 --> 00:15:16.452
You probably have it down much better than Trump, for sure.

00:15:17.485 --> 00:15:21.255
So I my wife decided to come work with me.

00:15:21.255 --> 00:15:27.076
So I said, listen, I need an office, I need a little lounge, a booth and a control room.

00:15:27.076 --> 00:15:37.048
And he goes okay, I'll do it for X amount and if it's going to help you, tommy is like one of the best human beings on the planet, right Like he's.

00:15:37.048 --> 00:15:40.932
I adore him and I mean what he did for me was great.

00:15:40.932 --> 00:15:49.971
And so at the time I told this other guy in Manhattan like, look, I'm about to build this facility and this is how much the guy wants to charge.

00:15:49.971 --> 00:15:57.051
And he goes I'll match it, come here and you know your wife can come and I'll give her a space here.

00:15:57.051 --> 00:15:59.331
And she ended we ended up taking the deal.

00:15:59.965 --> 00:16:04.493
I remember having almost having a heart attack because, telling Tommy, I felt like I was screwed.

00:16:04.493 --> 00:16:09.072
I never screwed anyone over in my entire life and maybe that's why you know the.

00:16:09.072 --> 00:16:15.313
You know the tortoise always wins, right, the turtle always wins, not the tortoise, the turtle.

00:16:15.313 --> 00:16:16.669
And I've always felt like the turtle.

00:16:16.669 --> 00:16:22.312
You know slow and steady and you know slowly rising up, and I felt terrible.

00:16:22.312 --> 00:16:30.892
I remember telling Tommy he had just started to knock walls down for me and I was like man, I'm so scared to tell you this, but this is what's happening.

00:16:30.892 --> 00:16:36.131
And he was like listen, you'd be an idiot not to take a Park Avenue address.

00:16:36.131 --> 00:16:39.230
Do it, it'll help your career.

00:16:39.671 --> 00:16:43.349
So I did, and it was a studio called Stadium Red Studios Look at you.

00:16:43.349 --> 00:16:46.672
And we got there.

00:16:46.672 --> 00:17:04.490
At first it was just basically like me paying rent, she was working, booking my sessions and then he saw what she was doing, what I was doing, and it ended up becoming sort of a partnership where he was like you know, you don't have to pay me rent, let's work this out a different way.

00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:17.295
And I ended up bringing different friends from the music industry accomplished guys and we ended up becoming from a two room facility and ended up becoming a five room facility Wow, in a few years.

00:17:17.295 --> 00:17:23.190
And we became like probably the most popular studio at the time in Manhattan.

00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:25.488
Everybody was coming up there, like you would be in the.

00:17:25.488 --> 00:17:29.813
We had a kitchen, brand new kitchen, and there was a shower and all of that.

00:17:29.813 --> 00:17:39.888
And I remember, like you know, you go into the kitchen and you don't know who you're gonna run into and the next thing you know you're, you know, talking about working a session with this artist and we had.

00:17:39.888 --> 00:17:41.826
My mastering engineer was there and it was.

00:17:41.945 --> 00:17:57.355
It was a beautiful, beautiful time and then the owner had made some terrible decisions and the facility closed down after a few years and I was left in the dust again.

00:17:57.355 --> 00:18:09.711
So I had to pick up the pieces and I ended up partnering with a guy in Greenpoint, brooklyn, who had a nice facility that I needed something nice to bring some of my better clients to.

00:18:09.711 --> 00:18:32.632
But at that time my friend Tyler, who was an accomplished jazz engineer he's also the backup music mixer at SNL and he had, like this small private mix room in a warehouse of 10 studios in Greenpoint and he goes listen, I need someone to split the rent with.

00:18:32.632 --> 00:18:33.654
Rent was nothing.

00:18:33.654 --> 00:18:36.510
It was like something like $800 a month.

00:18:36.510 --> 00:18:37.534
It was $400.

00:18:37.594 --> 00:18:39.417
Oh wow, my God, come on, so it was nothing.

00:18:39.525 --> 00:18:41.673
So my wife was like, just take that other room.

00:18:41.673 --> 00:18:44.032
Even if you use it once a week, it doesn't matter.

00:18:44.032 --> 00:18:50.907
So at that point my career changed and I'll tell you how Remote mixing.

00:18:50.907 --> 00:18:52.653
This was 2013.

00:18:52.653 --> 00:19:07.953
And what happened was that the owner of the first, the guy I partnered with at Greenpoint I was basically giving him a cut of my mix fee, so I was making a lot less money and I started realizing my clients didn't need to be there.

00:19:07.953 --> 00:19:14.251
So my wife and I had this idea that was like okay, and it was really her experience managing.

00:19:16.285 --> 00:19:30.607
I mean, she was like the Dr Larry Shea of the stadium red and she had this idea Probably way smarter, way more talented, though I mean she's definitely not a music person, but she is a.

00:19:31.369 --> 00:19:33.656
She's very intellectual.

00:19:33.656 --> 00:19:40.651
I don't know why she's with me, I'm the opposite, I think with the other side, and she used to.

00:19:40.651 --> 00:19:44.553
She could think of numbers and things like very quickly.

00:19:44.553 --> 00:19:47.314
So I remember she said well, what if we did this?

00:19:47.314 --> 00:19:50.731
Right, let's take like 10 clients.

00:19:50.731 --> 00:19:57.134
They each book like two, three days apart from each other and we say, okay, you don't want to pay a thousand?

00:19:57.134 --> 00:20:02.755
Let's say, let's pull round numbers, a thousand dollars for an independent mix, right?

00:20:02.755 --> 00:20:12.387
She's like what if we charge them 750 and you tell them it's a seven to 10 day turnaround for the song?

00:20:12.387 --> 00:20:18.323
Right now you have ten clients who are getting a reduced rate not showing up.

00:20:18.323 --> 00:20:29.901
You can work on it whenever you want and you can send them the mix when it's done and they feel like they're getting the best of you and you're getting what you want.

00:20:30.362 --> 00:20:31.284
And I was like brilliant.

00:20:31.284 --> 00:20:48.540
So I started realizing that my clients were taking that deal more than showing up at the studio, because it once they show up the studio, I have to raise that rate up because I got to give a cut to the to the partner and You're also booking me for a certain amount of hours, right.

00:20:48.540 --> 00:20:52.258
So that was pre-pandemic.

00:20:52.258 --> 00:21:03.169
And so what I started realizing was there was, I was using Skype and I tried to figure out, like Skype, I can screen share, how do I get them involved to do the changes?

00:21:03.169 --> 00:21:03.430
Right?

00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:09.946
So there's always changes and mixes oh, we want to raise the kick, we want to raise the vocal.

00:21:09.946 --> 00:21:21.630
And I said, okay, I got to figure out a way to make them involved, rather than like sending them an mp3, then then sending me an email with the changes, then sending it back like, oh, instead of right.

00:21:21.951 --> 00:21:22.271
How do you?

00:21:22.311 --> 00:21:22.593
speed.

00:21:22.593 --> 00:21:23.756
How do you speed up the process?

00:21:23.955 --> 00:21:24.518
Right it was.

00:21:24.678 --> 00:21:25.862
It was completely just him.

00:21:25.862 --> 00:21:27.796
I don't want to waste anyone's time.

00:21:27.796 --> 00:21:31.846
You know creativity, it comes and goes and time is money too.

00:21:31.928 --> 00:21:33.796
Absolutely, it's 100%.

00:21:33.796 --> 00:21:41.156
So I figured out that skype had screen sharing and Somebody turned me on to this program called nice cast.

00:21:41.156 --> 00:21:45.913
That was a company called rogue oh meba and they had a Program called nice cast.

00:21:45.913 --> 00:21:51.984
Nice cast was a third-party plug-in that you can stream and I think they were using it for podcasts early on.

00:21:51.984 --> 00:22:02.644
But I was able to stream from my DAW DAW directly to the client through a link and they could look at my screen and see what I did and listen.

00:22:02.644 --> 00:22:07.722
But it was really janky at the time but it worked right, it really worked.

00:22:07.722 --> 00:22:11.617
So sometimes the video wouldn't, you know, cooperate.

00:22:11.617 --> 00:22:19.894
So I would tell them look, let's, let's just get on a call and you stream and tell me great, that sounds good vocal.

00:22:19.894 --> 00:22:26.877
Turn up to snare DB, go up another DB, perfect, and like the changes would take 15-20 minutes and I'm like this is great.

00:22:27.611 --> 00:22:33.569
So I decided to leave the other studio because I felt like I wasn't really recording anymore.

00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:40.289
I was starting to really transition off of recording and I loved recording because people were booking me for me.

00:22:40.289 --> 00:22:42.538
That was the thing that we talked about earlier.

00:22:42.538 --> 00:22:45.618
My confidence was there and let me tell you something.

00:22:45.618 --> 00:22:48.185
What I learned is that I control the room.

00:22:48.185 --> 00:22:49.650
Nobody controls the room.

00:22:49.650 --> 00:23:02.383
It's my room, you're in my office, you're in my home and I'm gonna make it so comfortable that you don't even know what's going on, except for what's in your head and your focus and your creativity, right.

00:23:02.383 --> 00:23:12.221
So I started just getting bored with recording and I was doing a lot of hip-hop and After a while some of the hip-hop this is where I feel old.

00:23:12.221 --> 00:23:14.567
I just wasn't really jiving with it.

00:23:14.567 --> 00:23:18.753
You know, and and Mixing became my thing.

00:23:18.753 --> 00:23:24.048
It was just, it was my passion, and that's where I ultimately wanted to go was become a mix engineer.

00:23:24.048 --> 00:23:28.160
And Once I got into that room, tyler was barely there.

00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:30.226
You know, tyler is like.

00:23:30.286 --> 00:23:35.009
Tyler has three kids, he's married, he's working at SNL and he's mixing jazz records.

00:23:35.009 --> 00:23:40.589
The only time Tyler was there after his kids went to bed and I, I became like an early bird.

00:23:40.589 --> 00:23:43.230
I would get to the studio by 10 am and I'd be home.

00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:55.089
2018, fast-forward, 2015, my son was born and I wanted to be there every single day for Noah.

00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:56.355
I wanted to be there.

00:23:56.355 --> 00:23:58.586
When he went to sleep, I wanted to be around.

00:23:58.586 --> 00:24:00.051
When he was awake, I wanted to.

00:24:00.051 --> 00:24:01.134
I had to be there.

00:24:01.134 --> 00:24:06.589
I was around too many engineers that were always in the studio, studio rats.

00:24:06.589 --> 00:24:13.957
And you know, larry, you know you talk about, you know you couldn't be in the studio, for you can't imagine the hours you wanted to leave it too much.

00:24:14.137 --> 00:24:16.307
20 hours at a time, it's too much, I got.

00:24:16.347 --> 00:24:16.849
I got to that.

00:24:16.849 --> 00:24:17.653
I got to that.

00:24:17.773 --> 00:24:23.277
Ariel, how old, how old were you by this, by that point I Mean at 40, 40.

00:24:24.391 --> 00:24:25.515
No, no, it was born.

00:24:25.515 --> 00:24:29.933
I was 38 when he was, I mean so you've gotten older, obviously.

00:24:30.035 --> 00:24:34.063
as you've gotten older, I mean your priorities change obviously 100% there's no question.

00:24:34.150 --> 00:24:39.682
But I think early on I Saw how miserable some of these engineers were.

00:24:39.682 --> 00:24:41.829
You know, like their wives.

00:24:41.829 --> 00:24:47.611
You know I've heard everything from like their wives cheating on them to divorce, to this, to that they're.

00:24:47.611 --> 00:24:49.196
They're not in their kids lives.

00:24:49.196 --> 00:24:52.710
And you know my dad worked like two, three jobs, you know.

00:24:52.710 --> 00:24:56.588
So like there was early on, I only saw my dad on Sundays at times.

00:24:56.648 --> 00:24:57.732
You know Like it was.

00:24:57.732 --> 00:25:11.854
It was really hard and I didn't want that, you know, and I was only having one kid I'm one and done so I and I wait we waited a long time to have a, you know, to have to have children, so it was always career.

00:25:12.316 --> 00:25:19.374
So what happened was in in 2015, when Noah was born, I I left the studio.

00:25:19.374 --> 00:25:20.635
He went to bed every day.

00:25:20.635 --> 00:25:22.539
This kid was the I mean early on.

00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:25.163
He went to bed at 7 30 and woke up at 7 30.

00:25:25.163 --> 00:25:27.096
This kid slept 12 hours, man.

00:25:27.096 --> 00:25:31.792
My father-in-law always said to me you don't know what it's like to have a real child, you're lucky.

00:25:31.792 --> 00:25:41.623
So I used to go home and and make sure I put him to bed every night, you know, or gave him the bottle in the morning, like I needed that.

00:25:41.623 --> 00:25:50.334
And then, once a week, I would always take time to give my wife a break and I would take him for the day and we do things around the city as a Baby, you know, and I didn't know.

00:25:50.513 --> 00:25:54.123
I'm like hey, look, there's dinosaurs and you know he's a baby with the hell, does he know?

00:25:55.590 --> 00:25:56.032
Colors.

00:25:56.032 --> 00:25:57.519
You know it was also for you.

00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.789
When was the last time you went to see a dinosaur?

00:26:00.051 --> 00:26:02.068
Oh, that was elementary school until then.

00:26:02.068 --> 00:26:06.839
Now I've been to the museum in natural history, like you know, at least 30 times already with this.

00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.491
I was there with my four-year-old on Sunday Amazing.

00:26:11.171 --> 00:26:15.799
I feel for you, threes and fours are worse than twos, that's for sure.

00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:20.799
But I um, you know, I my priorities changed.

00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:28.450
So in 2016-17, tommy and I went out for drinks.

00:26:28.450 --> 00:26:36.740
We're going back to Tommy and Astoria and he says, man, you're doing well, why don't you buy a place and build a place in your house?

00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:39.127
And then you don't have any overhead.

00:26:39.127 --> 00:26:43.592
And I said, man, I don't think I'm ready to move to the suburbs yet At this point.

00:26:43.592 --> 00:26:45.298
I've been in the city since I was 18.

00:26:45.298 --> 00:26:49.036
I've already spent longer time in the city than I did in the suburbs growing up.

00:26:49.036 --> 00:26:51.317
So at this point, I'm a city slicker.

00:26:51.317 --> 00:26:53.651
So I said, well, I don't know, man, he goes.

00:26:53.651 --> 00:26:57.037
Trust me, man, you work all the time.

00:26:57.037 --> 00:26:58.153
Like, what do you do in the city?

00:26:58.153 --> 00:26:58.916
Anyway, these days?

00:26:58.916 --> 00:27:01.659
You got your family, you know, let them breathe fresh air.

00:27:01.659 --> 00:27:02.653
I'm like, okay, cool.

00:27:03.509 --> 00:27:06.118
So I started looking and I ended up moving.

00:27:06.118 --> 00:27:06.911
Man, I moved.

00:27:06.911 --> 00:27:21.835
You know, really important for me was my son having grandparents around, because I had one set of grandparents here and I didn't have both, and my in-laws are retired and travel between the two coasts and my parents are here.

00:27:21.835 --> 00:27:26.220
So it took a lot of how do I?

00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:31.497
My ego had to get checked for a minute and I didn't want to move back to where I grew up.

00:27:31.497 --> 00:27:45.875
But I also know that, like I grew up in a very amazing school district, which that became the priority and I wanted him around my parents, so I ended up moving literally around the corner from my parents, not where I grew up.

00:27:45.875 --> 00:27:55.960
But you know, I ended up buying a townhouse because I'm not a yardwork guy, like I'm not gonna spend the weekends mowing the lawn.

00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:57.635
You are suburban adjacent.

00:27:58.751 --> 00:28:05.096
Yeah, I can't do it, man, like if I'm gonna do take weekends off, I'm gonna spend it with my family.

00:28:05.096 --> 00:28:06.633
And I did.

00:28:06.633 --> 00:28:09.316
I bought a townhouse and there was a corner unit.

00:28:09.316 --> 00:28:14.398
So I knew that Tommy said find a corner unit, because then you only have neighbors on one side.

00:28:14.398 --> 00:28:20.156
And we built this floated studio and took about six months.

00:28:20.237 --> 00:28:21.019
He's a gem man.

00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:33.694
He lives out in Greenport, long Island, and he would come back and forth and he ran Like he had like one of the best restaurants and somehow he managed to come and help me build it and we built it together.

00:28:33.694 --> 00:28:36.375
He's like I'm gonna turn you into a man, you're gonna build something.

00:28:36.375 --> 00:28:37.334
I said, okay, great.

00:28:37.334 --> 00:28:42.538
And I gained the confidence and we built a studio and I've been working remotely.

00:28:42.538 --> 00:28:43.574
Now I have Zoom.

00:28:43.574 --> 00:28:58.061
There's a program now that I can stream high quality audio, so they're hearing it in, you know, full 24 bit quality with like literally less than maybe a second of lag time.

00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:00.234
I mean life is good.

00:29:00.234 --> 00:29:04.776
I mean there's no question that you know I love working from home.

00:29:04.776 --> 00:29:08.420
I wake up every morning with my kid at 7.15.

00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:27.317
I make him breakfast, I have breakfast with him, we connect, I get to see him when he comes home from school and we play some video games and you know his homework and I get to have dinner with my family and I get to go to my Brazilian jiu-jitsu classes every night, which is, you know, my passion too.

00:29:27.317 --> 00:29:29.551
You know, so it's you have to wear a thong.

00:29:29.551 --> 00:29:31.377
No, don't laugh, that's funny.

00:29:31.478 --> 00:29:32.601
No, man we wear a geek.

00:29:32.601 --> 00:29:34.796
Come on, come on come on.

00:29:34.796 --> 00:29:35.719
That's hysterical.

00:29:35.719 --> 00:29:36.580
Why are you talking to this video?

00:29:36.580 --> 00:29:37.653
The guy's gonna kick your ass.

00:29:37.653 --> 00:29:37.914
What?

00:29:39.634 --> 00:29:40.096
No man.

00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:43.157
That's what I figured Brazilian jiu-jitsu has to be.

00:29:43.971 --> 00:29:50.640
I started doing jiu-jitsu years ago, probably around 2009 or 10.

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.198
And I couldn't be consistent because at the time we were running stadium red.

00:29:55.198 --> 00:29:57.136
We got to stadium red at 2008.

00:29:57.136 --> 00:30:00.118
And you know, classes were at 11 am.

00:30:00.118 --> 00:30:09.556
But the problem was that you know, if I'm leaving the studio at six, seven o'clock in the morning and I got to go sleep and be back at like noon, I'm not going to jiu-jitsu class.

00:30:09.556 --> 00:30:10.132
So it would.

00:30:10.132 --> 00:30:12.613
You know I broke it up a lot and then I tried.

00:30:12.913 --> 00:30:33.715
I've always done martial arts since I was a kid and you know, jiu-jitsu for me became a passion because it's not what people think, it's not like this brute sport, it's very science-based, it's, you know, a smaller guy has leverage over a guy a hundred pounds heavier than him and it's like mixing records.

00:30:33.715 --> 00:30:38.039
You know, mixing records, you're taking the pieces of the puzzle and it's small.

00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:45.317
It's small changes to a song that create the bigger picture, right, it's like very increment steps.

00:30:45.317 --> 00:30:47.088
And jiu-jitsu is the same way.

00:30:47.088 --> 00:31:02.598
If someone's on, you know, trying to take control of you, it's like the small, minor details of like the different you know body motions and stuff that help create the leverage and it's helped me with my mixing.

00:31:02.598 --> 00:31:03.271
It's helped me.

00:31:03.271 --> 00:31:12.153
I mean, for 46, I'm in great shape, you know, and I attribute that to that big shout out to my jiu-jitsu school.

00:31:12.153 --> 00:31:18.401
You know Dan DeLia and you know my Henzo Gracie family over there.

00:31:18.401 --> 00:31:21.257
But it's, you know, it's great and I get to do what I want to do.

00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:25.000
And you know, listen, do I feel like I've peaked yet in my career?

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.678
No, I haven't peaked, but I don't look at it like that.

00:31:29.678 --> 00:31:43.519
The fact that I do this every day, you know I feel blessed to do it and you know, most people aren't in my position in the sense that they get to spend time with their family and I could care less about, you know, being with my.

00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:47.277
You know, being in a studio, you know, for hours at a time with clients.

00:31:47.277 --> 00:31:50.096
I love what I do and I, you know, I'm enjoying it.

00:31:50.096 --> 00:31:55.058
And I'm moving on to the next now, the whole Dolby Atmos spatial audio thing.

00:31:55.058 --> 00:32:19.154
I've been training, you know, one of my friends is the senior vice president of A&R at Republic Records and they bought out Red Bull Studios and they built this crazy facility on 18th Street and he's been kind enough to let me go in and train with his engineers on spatial audio and I'm gonna be putting up spatial audio in my room within the next few months.

00:32:19.154 --> 00:32:22.096
And yeah, you know, I mean it is.

00:32:22.096 --> 00:32:22.498
Listen.

00:32:23.369 --> 00:32:32.960
You know, obviously we haven't talked about the downsides of the business and the times that I wanted to quit and all of that, but it's real.

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.778
You know, it's definitely a very hard business.

00:32:35.778 --> 00:32:43.010
We didn't touch upon the negative, which I didn't want to, just because, you know we wanna obviously show that it's positive and it is.

00:32:43.010 --> 00:32:53.832
You know, the majority is positive, but they do say that the entertainment business is the hardest business to be in, because really it's everyone.

00:32:53.832 --> 00:32:55.698
Most people are out for themselves.

00:32:55.698 --> 00:33:01.777
You know and I've just been lucky enough to have people around me that I don't have any enemies.

00:33:01.777 --> 00:33:08.298
I've never had enemies, you know, and if I feel like someone's battling me, I just move away because there's no reason to engage.

00:33:08.298 --> 00:33:10.898
You know, there's plenty of music in the world.

00:33:10.898 --> 00:33:12.454
There's plenty of money out there.

00:33:12.454 --> 00:33:19.597
Now I think with streaming, there's more artists to work with and I enjoy the ride, I enjoy the process.

00:33:19.597 --> 00:33:25.219
This is, you know, this is what I've always wanted to do and I've always dreamt of having a studio in my house, you know.

00:33:25.971 --> 00:33:26.090
Let's.

00:33:26.090 --> 00:33:27.758
I mean, yeah, that's living the dream right there.

00:33:27.758 --> 00:33:29.096
You have the best of all worlds, right.

00:33:29.096 --> 00:33:31.550
So let's do some quick hitters, so quick answers here Ready.

00:33:31.550 --> 00:33:35.577
I've seen a million things in the studio business.

00:33:35.577 --> 00:33:40.299
Being a studio manager, what's the craziest thing you've ever seen happen at a studio?

00:33:40.299 --> 00:33:44.016
Because these guys are making their art.

00:33:44.016 --> 00:33:45.674
You know, and they need all sorts of.

00:33:45.674 --> 00:33:49.823
You know, obviously there's a lot of drugs, a lot of drinking, a lot of partying, right?

00:33:49.843 --> 00:33:50.690
It's a lot of sex.

00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:53.992
That's the easy, that's the nothing, right, I mean the sex stuff.

00:33:54.094 --> 00:33:55.057
I mean there's a lot of stuff.

00:33:55.769 --> 00:33:59.199
I've definitely walked in on celebrities having sex.

00:33:59.199 --> 00:34:07.997
I've I've definitely seen, you know, guns get hidden and shootouts in front of studios.

00:34:09.112 --> 00:34:10.951
Wow, you know I'm being a white I'm sorry.

00:34:10.951 --> 00:34:12.135
Shootouts in the studio.

00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:14.637
No, no, in the front Outside.

00:34:14.969 --> 00:34:16.355
Oh, so that's expensive equipment.

00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:17.992
Yeah.

00:34:17.992 --> 00:34:21.172
I mean being a white boy from the suburbs, you don't see that.

00:34:21.172 --> 00:34:26.536
You know I was definitely privileged to grow up where I grew up and not see any of that.

00:34:26.536 --> 00:34:30.137
But you know, I've seen that kind of stuff.

00:34:30.137 --> 00:34:37.619
I've seen fights happen where like planned fights, where they fight in the live room for money.

00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:41.235
I mean I've, you know.

00:34:41.396 --> 00:34:42.820
Seen it all, you've seen it all.

00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:44.385
I mean, I've seen things happen.

00:34:44.829 --> 00:34:47.829
I've seen things happen at the cutting room, Larry Shea, that you don't know.

00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:48.411
Yes, listen.

00:34:49.213 --> 00:34:49.916
I very quickly.

00:34:49.916 --> 00:34:52.335
I mean I that stuff didn't make the lock, huh.

00:34:53.672 --> 00:34:54.815
No, they did make the lock.

00:34:54.815 --> 00:34:55.498
They're in the lock.

00:34:55.498 --> 00:35:00.478
I mean no names, of course, but yeah, I mean people would pull guns and say I'm taking these tapes home.

00:35:00.478 --> 00:35:05.460
So I'd get a call at three in the morning and they'd be like can so-and-so take their tapes home?

00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:08.400
And I'm like no, under no circumstances have they had to take their tapes home.

00:35:08.429 --> 00:35:17.016
And they're like there's a gun in my head and I'm like, literally or figuratively, and they're like, literally, You're telling Dr Larry Shea says you are not taking that tape home.

00:35:17.016 --> 00:35:18.394
You're taking the tapes.

00:35:19.231 --> 00:35:35.539
I heard one story where this is an old story and I won't name the engineer, but he told me a story that he was doing a two-pox session at Unique Studios and Poc walks in with an entourage of like 50 people and they put two guns on the speakers facing the engineer.

00:35:35.539 --> 00:35:37.215
Just laid them there.

00:35:37.215 --> 00:35:48.945
Wow, I mean, you know like I mean things like that, I've had to help hide guns, you know, I mean there's definitely been like a lot of crazy stories that you know.

00:35:49.989 --> 00:35:54.282
What is one of the, if one or two or three?

00:35:54.282 --> 00:35:57.757
What are some of the greatest sessions you've ever been in?

00:35:59.802 --> 00:36:00.041
So, it's-.

00:36:00.041 --> 00:36:02.610
And they don't necessarily have to be famous people Like if you-.

00:36:02.891 --> 00:36:04.376
No, I agree, I was gonna answer that.

00:36:04.376 --> 00:36:21.577
So one of the ones that I really there's three, there's the black eyed peas gave me the confidence to work with A-list artists and that week was, I mean, aside from making at the time, the most money.

00:36:21.577 --> 00:36:23.463
I still remember how much I made that week, Larry.

00:36:23.463 --> 00:36:24.329
I think I made it a little bit.

00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:28.134
Wow, probably more than me $4,000 that week $4,000?

00:36:28.730 --> 00:36:30.034
It's probably more than I made that week.

00:36:30.576 --> 00:36:32.172
Yeah, so I.

00:36:32.172 --> 00:36:34.960
I mean at the time I was like 22, 23,.

00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.157
I was like God damn man, we're balling.

00:36:37.157 --> 00:36:39.916
So I that.

00:36:39.916 --> 00:37:01.190
Then there was an artist named Phase One that I used to work with, who was a very good friend of mine, and there was we had a collective of producers and they were really into like very conscious hip hop, like very much like Jay Dilla and like that type of artistry that.

00:37:01.190 --> 00:37:19.322
This is when I had my studio in my first commercial studio in Queens Tommy's first place and every Friday we would do sessions and it was like a hangout and I thoroughly enjoyed and I deeply missed those sessions.

00:37:19.322 --> 00:37:23.693
The producer passed away a few years ago Ace of Buchanan.

00:37:23.693 --> 00:37:24.838
Big shout out to him.

00:37:24.838 --> 00:37:31.215
I really missed those days tremendously because it was a family.

00:37:31.215 --> 00:37:34.378
We would go out to eat after the sessions.

00:37:34.378 --> 00:37:35.311
We would.

00:37:35.311 --> 00:37:36.436
I mean it was great.

00:37:36.670 --> 00:37:52.679
And then the other one is I work with this very accomplished Celtic rock band in France called the Celtic Social Club and in 2018, I've been mixing their records for 10 years and they they flew me out to France.

00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.215
They wanted me to produce their album.

00:37:54.215 --> 00:38:05.838
And I get to France and it's the studio in the Southwest, on the Southwest coast, in a town called Rochefort and I flew into Paris.

00:38:05.838 --> 00:38:18.739
I took a three hour train ride on my own, not speaking a lick of French except for Merci and C-Vous-Play, and then I went to this.

00:38:18.739 --> 00:38:20.342
It was a gorgeous studio.

00:38:20.342 --> 00:38:21.534
We had our own chef.

00:38:21.534 --> 00:38:25.880
I mean, the history of the studio was an old theater.

00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:31.860
It was unbelievable, and I remember my clock was so off that week.

00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:41.755
I went there for 15 days and I remember waking up in the morning before anyone walking around that city.

00:38:41.755 --> 00:38:43.139
Nobody spoke English.

00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:47.240
I get a croissant, like just sat by the sea.

00:38:47.240 --> 00:38:49.858
I ate oysters like every freaking night.

00:38:49.858 --> 00:39:02.257
You know the one thing if you look on my Instagram, there's a picture on there where I took of like a plate of oysters with a beautiful bottle of wine right in front of the console, and I got interviewed by French TV.

00:39:02.257 --> 00:39:06.496
It was French national TV.

00:39:06.496 --> 00:39:14.320
I was actually on like one of the biggest TV stations there, and a few years before that wasn't a session.

00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:22.619
But in 2015, the producer of the band, who's also the drummer he's a very, very one of my closest friends on the planet Manu Mascow.

00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:35.416
He ended up getting me to do a five city masterclass in Northwest France and when I tell you guys that I thought I was walking into a classroom of five people.

00:39:35.416 --> 00:39:38.757
I did one, just to give you perspective.

00:39:38.757 --> 00:40:01.519
I did one in Cognac, the city of Cognac, like right outside the Remi Martin and the Hennessy factories and Martel factory, and there was about 200 people there and it was in an old castle and I was on this huge stage and with an interpreter and it was one of the most unbelievable experience.

00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:08.974
It was easy to bring my wife out there because I'm like, yeah, my manager's gonna come and don't worry about paying another room for her, she'll just sleep in my room, you know.

00:40:08.974 --> 00:40:13.039
So we ended up going out there and it was hard.

00:40:13.329 --> 00:40:19.054
I got a taste of touring life because we'd have to get in the car in the morning, go to another city.

00:40:19.054 --> 00:40:19.596
It sucked.

00:40:19.596 --> 00:40:25.418
I'm so glad I didn't choose to be a musician and it was great man.

00:40:25.418 --> 00:40:26.835
It was the best experience.

00:40:26.835 --> 00:40:37.559
I was in every newspaper in every city, like you know, with the big, big article on me as this, like you know, american producer, engineer.

00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:53.735
And then I got a private tour of the Martel factory, cognac, which is like the oldest Cognac in the entire world, and I think they thought I was Bono man because they pretty much felt like they gave me the key to the city.

00:40:53.735 --> 00:41:01.036
I'm not even kidding you when I tell you I got like a really big tour, like they must have thought I was somebody.

00:41:01.036 --> 00:41:01.498
I'm not.

00:41:01.498 --> 00:41:09.655
I mean, the head of cultural affairs of the region of Cognac came and met with me and took pictures with me like I'm some sort of You're a Grammy winner.

00:41:10.393 --> 00:41:11.898
You're a Grammy, for God's sake.

00:41:13.293 --> 00:41:17.494
Listen, you know what I learned about, especially the French.

00:41:17.494 --> 00:41:22.340
They really appreciate American engineers and producers.

00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:30.583
They treat you differently and I've always had great experiences working with them.

00:41:30.583 --> 00:41:34.690
I do an album every year with them, you know, with this band, you know.

00:41:34.690 --> 00:41:38.476
So I ended up so you know that five city masterclass.

00:41:38.849 --> 00:41:46.876
And then I got to spend two days with this artist who's this very accomplished band called Red Cardel that's been around for years.

00:41:46.876 --> 00:41:52.378
They've been produced by Clive Martin, who did like Queen and shit like that.

00:41:52.378 --> 00:41:59.177
They're like I don't know, I guess it's like Celtic Rock and I got to spend some time.

00:41:59.177 --> 00:42:07.440
I have a good relationship with the lead singer and he invited us to stay at his house and I ate this ridiculous food and you know.

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:17.059
Got to hang out by the sea and got to see where Johnny Depp's vacation home is in that area that nobody knows about, and just beautiful experience.

00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:29.996
So I think those experiences really stick with me and I know there's more, but like those are the ones that really to this day are very close to my heart that I think about a lot.

00:42:30.789 --> 00:42:31.715
That's very, very cool.

00:42:31.715 --> 00:42:43.976
Well, the last question that we'll throw at you if you know you were talking to a young person today who wanted to get into your world, what advice would you give them?

00:42:45.829 --> 00:42:46.974
That's a loaded question.

00:42:48.750 --> 00:42:49.594
Or an older person.

00:42:49.594 --> 00:42:50.773
No, no, no, no, no, no listen.

00:42:52.010 --> 00:42:54.398
Sometimes you sound like that you know the older you get.

00:42:54.398 --> 00:42:57.117
I don't want to sound like the get off my lawn guy, you know.

00:42:57.789 --> 00:42:59.235
Well, that's what two sharers here for.

00:42:59.235 --> 00:42:59.777
That's his job.

00:42:59.777 --> 00:43:00.652
Yeah, I usually do that.

00:43:00.693 --> 00:43:15.077
Go that route so like you know, I guess the best advice I would give to somebody is the music business is a long road and it's a journey it's not people see on.

00:43:15.077 --> 00:43:28.059
I think the hardest thing is to see people on Instagram now because for whatever social media they use, but I'll take Instagram because the only thing you see on Instagram is the good.

00:43:28.059 --> 00:43:29.693
Nobody ever posts the bad.

00:43:29.693 --> 00:43:30.516
You know what I mean?

00:43:30.516 --> 00:43:31.259
No of course.

00:43:31.570 --> 00:43:35.438
Can you imagine someone put a picture like here's my face when the client says my mix sucked.

00:43:35.438 --> 00:43:45.798
You know, like nobody puts that up there, so they always see this the good of what's going on, but they don't realize that the grass is always greener.

00:43:45.798 --> 00:43:51.289
And taking it from a guy like me, this business is waved.

00:43:51.289 --> 00:43:59.969
So what I say, the best advice I give to people, is live like you're poor, right?

00:43:59.969 --> 00:44:13.268
So like let's say that I do a project and like the album, let's say it's a $50,000 all in project with a point, right, do you think I'm spending $50,000?

00:44:13.268 --> 00:44:17.568
Like that I'm putting that money away Like I, you know I cut myself a check.

00:44:18.099 --> 00:44:21.699
That's the same check whether I'm making $50,000 or $2,000.

00:44:21.699 --> 00:44:29.681
You know, like it's the same check coming from my, you know, to myself, and that's the way you have to live, you know.

00:44:29.681 --> 00:44:40.331
So I tell people like it's really about, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend, right, and in this business that's one part of it.

00:44:40.331 --> 00:44:42.286
The other thing is relationships, right?

00:44:42.286 --> 00:44:48.726
I mean, look at Larry and I like we've known each other for so long and the minute we got on the phone we haven't spoken in years.

00:44:48.726 --> 00:44:57.206
The last time, I think, I went to one of his birthday parties at a bar and we, just we get right into it and it's like nothing's ever changing.

00:44:57.681 --> 00:44:59.547
That's from having good relationships.

00:44:59.547 --> 00:45:16.436
You know, like Larry and I definitely have had some like not conflicts, where we hated each other, but you know, like in the music business, like you know, as your boss and the worker, you know there's not always gonna be a walk in the park, yeah the usual stuff.

00:45:16.476 --> 00:45:20.530
Yeah, the usual stuff, the usual stuff, but relationships are everything.

00:45:20.530 --> 00:45:29.708
Keep relationships because you don't know what that person that you're talking to, who that person's gonna be 10 years down the road.

00:45:29.708 --> 00:45:40.773
I've seen people destroy relationships with people under them where a few years later they're vice president of A&R of a major label.

00:45:40.972 --> 00:45:43.585
you know, and then all the other Don't burn those bridges.

00:45:43.585 --> 00:45:45.327
Definitely don't burn those bridges.

00:45:45.327 --> 00:45:47.106
Yeah, it's fairly important.

00:45:47.922 --> 00:45:58.068
And really it's about honing your craft, and I know that's like very cliche to say, but it's really important to understand that there's so much information out there now.

00:45:58.068 --> 00:46:05.306
It's all about becoming the best at what you can create your own style.

00:46:05.306 --> 00:46:10.469
You could learn from different engineers, but ultimately everybody's ear is different.

00:46:10.469 --> 00:46:17.025
You know and I always equate it back to Jiu-Jitsu Every body, your body, is different than the next person's body.

00:46:17.025 --> 00:46:24.586
So how you maneuver certain positions or certain mixes or certain techniques is very individualized.

00:46:24.586 --> 00:46:33.804
So it's about being your own person and eventually you get to a point where people anybody can make anyone sound good, but people need to.

00:46:34.019 --> 00:46:37.445
People start coming to you for taste, and that's what you wanna strive for.

00:46:37.445 --> 00:46:45.586
You want people to come to you for your taste because of what you accomplished, and again, it's a long journey.

00:46:45.586 --> 00:46:46.945
So don't ever give up.

00:46:46.945 --> 00:46:57.110
That's very cliche, but it's the truth, because I've wanted to give up so many times, after the cutting room, after puffies, after this.

00:46:57.110 --> 00:47:02.266
Things happen in life that are tragic, that you never know.

00:47:02.266 --> 00:47:08.827
You lose friends, deaths and all this other stuff and you start questioning what you do.

00:47:08.827 --> 00:47:15.646
But at the end of the day, it's nothing can compete with the passion, and if you have a passion for this.

00:47:15.646 --> 00:47:28.728
You just have to continue, because ultimately, the turtle does win, right Like it gets to the finish line, and that's what matters and, at the end of the day, your health is also dependent on your stress level.

00:47:30.523 --> 00:47:33.782
And I don't have to answer to anybody anymore except my wife.

00:47:34.063 --> 00:47:37.547
But you know but otherwise that's-.

00:47:37.547 --> 00:47:41.929
All great advice, without any question at all.

00:47:42.099 --> 00:47:47.750
I know and I feel like some of it is cliche, but it's now that I'm older and I understand that.

00:47:47.750 --> 00:47:50.469
No, it's valuable though it's valuable it is and it's the truth.

00:47:50.469 --> 00:47:51.684
It's cliche because it's true.

00:47:51.684 --> 00:47:52.523
That's the point.

00:47:52.523 --> 00:48:00.246
Yes, 100%, and that's really the advice I'd give someone and smile and make people feel comfortable.

00:48:00.246 --> 00:48:00.789
That's it.

00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:10.186
So if anybody wants to find Ariel after this conversation, where should they seek you out and what should they know about engaging with you?

00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:13.608
I'm always engaging with people.

00:48:13.608 --> 00:48:18.050
I feel like no matter what, I love engaging with people.

00:48:18.050 --> 00:48:20.704
I love to give advice.

00:48:20.704 --> 00:48:22.905
I also do mentorship.

00:48:22.905 --> 00:48:25.547
People call it mixing lessons.

00:48:25.547 --> 00:48:26.021
I don't.

00:48:26.021 --> 00:48:27.527
I call it mentorship lessons.

00:48:27.527 --> 00:48:37.726
I've done that for I have some really good engineers out there that are becoming very successful who, assisted for me, have taken my one-on-one mentorship lessons.

00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:41.407
Where could they find that Ariel on your website?

00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:43.306
So on the website.

00:48:43.306 --> 00:48:55.202
So if you go to my website, which is wwwariel a-r-i-e-l b-o-r-u-j-o-wcom, you know my website is.

00:48:55.202 --> 00:48:56.869
I check it.

00:48:56.869 --> 00:49:09.427
Instagram is really the one that I get the most hits on, and my Instagram is mixed by Ariel m-i-x-e-d b-y-a-r-i-e-l.

00:49:09.427 --> 00:49:10.670
Awesome.

00:49:11.059 --> 00:49:19.527
So if anybody out there wants to engage with a highly skilled and talented engineer, those are the ways to track down Ariel.

00:49:19.527 --> 00:49:22.889
Ariel, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

00:49:23.179 --> 00:49:25.125
And it's my pleasure I had such a blast.

00:49:25.125 --> 00:49:27.262
I love doing this kind of stuff, Thanks buddy.

00:49:27.980 --> 00:49:35.108
So that concludes our conversation with Ariel Bourgeau, and what a great guy, what an interesting conversation that was.

00:49:35.108 --> 00:49:41.748
To me, who's a huge music fan, getting a look behind the curtain is incredibly fascinating.

00:49:41.748 --> 00:49:52.161
And beyond that, ariel is such a great story about somebody who was entirely self-made, put themselves out there, took up a big risk and made it so.

00:49:52.161 --> 00:49:55.402
Just a very inspiring person, tushar.

00:49:55.402 --> 00:49:56.164
What are your thoughts?

00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:05.268
Part one of our conversation with Ariel was all about a guy who was willing to do almost anything and everything to get his career off the ground.

00:50:05.268 --> 00:50:10.909
And the thing I take away from part two is here is a man that was very comfortable with his life.

00:50:10.909 --> 00:50:13.268
He's very comfortable with his family life.

00:50:13.268 --> 00:50:20.728
He wanted to do everything he could to make sure that he had time with his wife, with his son, with his career and have it all balanced very well.

00:50:20.728 --> 00:50:25.521
And that's kind of what he's done and it sounds so wonderful In many ways.

00:50:25.521 --> 00:50:31.608
Part two of our talk with Ariel I came off as like it just came off as sweet to me.

00:50:31.608 --> 00:50:38.784
It just came off as very sweet and very endearing and I really, really enjoyed it and I'm very happy we had a chance to speak to Ariel Bourgeau.

00:50:38.784 --> 00:50:39.965
I'm really happy about that.

00:50:40.239 --> 00:51:00.144
Yeah, I think he paints a picture of somebody who worked so hard in the beginning so that he could basically have the freedom to have a family life right and to be a part of his children's life and to work on his terms almost, and I think the partnership with his wife was instrumental with that.

00:51:00.144 --> 00:51:02.567
I mean he just gave us so many great.

00:51:02.567 --> 00:51:06.726
I mean he called them cliche parting lines, but I mean I think they're important.

00:51:06.726 --> 00:51:11.228
Relationships are everything, and that goes for any profession we're talking about.

00:51:11.228 --> 00:51:12.722
Never burn bridges.

00:51:12.722 --> 00:51:14.208
Create your own style.

00:51:14.208 --> 00:51:24.068
Ultimately, when you're talking about being a mix engineer like, they are hiring you for a reason they want your stamp on their song.

00:51:24.068 --> 00:51:30.690
And so when he talks about honing your craft and creating your own style, you're selling Ariel Bourgeau.

00:51:30.690 --> 00:51:35.710
I mean, that's what it is and ultimately the turtle will win.

00:51:35.992 --> 00:51:37.016
I love that that was a great line.

00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:41.809
His slow and steady wins the race man, and he just laid it right out there for you.

00:51:41.809 --> 00:51:44.764
And that works for a lot of professions, not just being a mix engineer.

00:51:44.885 --> 00:51:56.844
Absolutely, and one of the core tenets of our show is to try to shine a light on things that our audience can use within their own careers and with their own journeys.

00:51:56.844 --> 00:52:20.610
And one of the things that stood out to me and granted, it's not necessarily easy to pull this off, but, tushar, I think you alluded to the partner earlier on and if you look at many successful business people, many successful people in this world, they have made the right decision of a life partner.

00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:27.048
It's funny Warren Buffett often says the greatest advice I can give anybody is to marry the right person.

00:52:27.139 --> 00:52:34.648
It changes everything and it's really like if you read any book about Warren Buffett, it seems to get back to that all the time.

00:52:34.648 --> 00:52:57.543
And when I hear Ariel talk about the confidence that his wife gave him, pushing him to set up his own business, take certain risks, be willing to walk away from her own career to start to run his business, all that just really stood out to me and is just great proof that that concept and that idea certainly holds true.

00:52:57.664 --> 00:53:02.985
Yeah, and I also think it's important that we talk about Ariel.

00:53:02.985 --> 00:53:04.628
He wasn't chasing a paycheck here.

00:53:04.628 --> 00:53:10.768
This could be, as I said, a very grueling business, but it can also be very rewarding.

00:53:10.768 --> 00:53:12.527
And it's not necessarily the paycheck.

00:53:12.527 --> 00:53:31.288
Yeah, you can make a living, but you're a part of something magical making music and I think you hear that in Ariel when he tells his story, that he wanted to be part of something like, oh my god, they pay somebody to play with those buttons, like that's going to be me, and there is something very magical about it.

00:53:31.288 --> 00:53:35.367
And when you get in the music business, you see your name on an album for the first time.

00:53:35.367 --> 00:53:38.809
I mean there's no words that can explain.

00:53:38.809 --> 00:53:41.849
So it's a viable career, it's a great career.

00:53:41.849 --> 00:53:50.507
It's changed dramatically over the last couple of decades, but go after it, man, dream big, because that's what this show is all about is dreaming big.

00:53:50.728 --> 00:53:51.590
That's exactly right.

00:53:51.590 --> 00:53:53.847
So Ariel is great proof of that.

00:53:53.847 --> 00:53:56.208
He set up his own business, his own practice.

00:53:56.208 --> 00:54:01.746
He created a career and a life on his own terms, and that's pretty remarkable.

00:54:01.746 --> 00:54:05.670
So that is our conversation with Ariel Borgio.

00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:09.744
Ariel, thank you so much for joining this episode of no Wrong Choices.

00:54:09.744 --> 00:54:11.585
We also thank you for joining us.

00:54:11.585 --> 00:54:17.766
If you enjoyed the show, please tell your friends, click, follow on your podcasting platform and give us a five-star rating.

00:54:17.766 --> 00:54:28.724
Also, if this episode or others inspired you to think of someone interesting in your life who could be a great guest on the show, please send us a note via the contact form on nowrongchoicescom.

00:54:28.724 --> 00:54:31.887
On behalf of Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:54:31.887 --> 00:54:32.923
I'm Larry Samuels.

00:54:32.923 --> 00:54:37.628
Thank you again for joining us and remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success.

00:54:37.628 --> 00:54:40.327
We learn from every experience.

00:54:41.661 --> 00:54:46.990
Have a good one.