July 12, 2023

The Sound of Success (Part 1) with Grammy-Award Winning Mix & Recording Engineer, Ariel Borujow

The Sound of Success (Part 1) with Grammy-Award Winning Mix & Recording Engineer, Ariel Borujow
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Season 2

What does it take to win a Grammy Award?  Absolute commitment and a willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your dreams.  

Ariel Borujow is a Grammy winning multi-platinum mix engineer who has worked with many of the biggest names in the music industry including Puffy, Madonna and Andrea Bocelli.  In this episode (part 1 of 2), we delve into Ariel's early days and the challenges he faced while trying to break into the recording industry and New York City Music scene.  Ariel's determination knew no bounds, as he was willing to do whatever it took, even cleaning toilets, to make his dreams a reality.  

If you're seeking inspiration, motivation, and a behind-the-scenes look at the music industry, this episode is a must-listen. 
   


To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - The Art of Mixing

14:01 - Discovering a Passion for Audio Engineering

25:27 - From Studio Assistant to Recording Engineer

38:05 - Studio Vibe and Customer Input Importance

43:00 - Ariel Barjoe's Music Industry Journey

Transcript
WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to No Wrong Choices, a podcast about the adventures of life that explores the career journeys of successful and interesting people.

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I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by the other fellows, tushar Saxena and Larry Shag.

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If you enjoy our show, please support us by clicking follow on your podcasting platform and by giving us a five star rating.

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You can also learn more about us and connect by visiting our website at knowwrongchoicescom, or look for us on Facebook, instagram, twitter and now YouTube by searching for No Wrong Choices.

00:00:34.753 --> 00:00:40.012
This episode features Grammy Award-winning recording and mix engineer, ariel Borzio.

00:00:40.012 --> 00:00:46.493
Ariel has worked with countless respected musicians, including Puffy, madonna and Andrea Bocelli.

00:00:46.493 --> 00:00:49.990
Larry Shag is a friend and former colleague of Ariel's.

00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:52.268
You're the perfect person to set up this discussion.

00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:54.326
Yeah, ariel's a special guy.

00:00:54.326 --> 00:00:55.465
I'm excited about this.

00:00:55.465 --> 00:01:09.269
I had the chance to work with him a number of years ago at this point, and I was in the music business for about 10 years and I used to hire recording engineers as a manager of a recording studio, in this case the cutting room, which was a great place.

00:01:09.269 --> 00:01:14.850
We just so many special albums were made there and so many special artists came through there.

00:01:14.850 --> 00:01:23.266
You needed special people like Ariel to take that client and lead them through that artistic process and give them what they need.

00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:28.751
That wasn't easy because as a recording engineer, first and foremost you need great ears.

00:01:28.751 --> 00:01:34.811
You got to have great ears, but you also need to put on the hats of psychologists.

00:01:34.811 --> 00:01:38.549
You got to be great with people your musician, your business person.

00:01:38.549 --> 00:01:46.028
There's a lot of independent contracting in this business and you have to have a tireless work ethic and Ariel had all of those things.

00:01:46.028 --> 00:01:49.444
I was thrilled I was able to work with him.

00:01:49.444 --> 00:02:09.086
I hired him a number of years ago and he never disappointed me, and I'm super excited to hear how this dream started for him and that he could share this magical thing with us, because I know, because I tried to do it, this is not an easy path by any stretch of the imagination, so excited to hear his story.

00:02:09.740 --> 00:02:25.368
I'm always interested in hearing when guys like this talk about that fine line between what it means to hone a craft like you're actually learning a craft and then, when you get to a certain point in your craft, then it becomes art.

00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:41.792
That's really what this is all about because that's really what it means to be a recording and engineer and a mix engineer, because at some point you're learning all about how the dials work and what the faders do and how to set up a room properly, et cetera.

00:02:41.792 --> 00:02:47.512
That's what really Ariel has done, before we can even talk about what engineers do.

00:02:47.512 --> 00:02:49.266
This is what this man has done throughout his career.

00:02:49.266 --> 00:02:51.788
He's had this opportunity to probably do all these things.

00:02:51.788 --> 00:02:55.028
But then at what point does it really become an art form?

00:02:55.028 --> 00:02:57.370
Because that's really where then?

00:02:57.370 --> 00:03:03.129
the albums that we've purchased over the years and the songs that we listen to, that's really the end product that we listen to.

00:03:03.129 --> 00:03:07.250
That's the art form that we always be at, that we're always wanting.

00:03:07.250 --> 00:03:10.108
How do they make that song sound so great?

00:03:10.108 --> 00:03:13.770
How do they make that album sound so cohesive from top to bottom?

00:03:13.770 --> 00:03:15.193
That's the art form.

00:03:15.193 --> 00:03:16.784
That's where that comes into play.

00:03:17.181 --> 00:03:19.007
Yeah, i'm really eager to hear about that.

00:03:19.007 --> 00:03:22.969
The other thing that in my mind is how do you get in?

00:03:22.969 --> 00:03:28.711
So many of these jobs are coveted, whether it's in sports or music.

00:03:28.711 --> 00:03:35.151
There's so many different roles and careers and genres that people are just dying to get into.

00:03:35.151 --> 00:03:38.187
There's so many folks vying for so few opportunities.

00:03:38.187 --> 00:03:53.871
How do you stand out, how do you break in, and what is that journey And what is that sacrifice you have to make to be that person that manages to get through the door and then into a role or onto a path that leads?

00:03:53.931 --> 00:03:54.352
somewhere.

00:03:54.352 --> 00:04:04.944
Yeah, we love talking about jobs where it's only a few people who make it through the forest and actually come out the other side and are doing something that they dreamed about doing their whole lives.

00:04:04.944 --> 00:04:09.371
I know as a recording engineer, studying it's an intimidating looking profession.

00:04:09.371 --> 00:04:14.385
You know like you look at a board and you're like, oh my God, how the heck do you know what all those knobs and buttons do?

00:04:14.385 --> 00:04:23.629
I got to tell you as a former engineer that's the least of your concerns, as with all things with us and with trying to chase your dreams.

00:04:23.629 --> 00:04:25.452
It's about people wanting to work with you.

00:04:25.452 --> 00:04:31.769
It's about being a good person, it's about relationships, and I'm sure Ariel's going to tell us all about every bit of that.

00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:33.798
Here is Ariel Borjo.

00:04:33.798 --> 00:04:35.326
Hey, thanks for having me.

00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:36.843
Thanks for coming on, ariel.

00:04:36.843 --> 00:04:42.632
This is a rare treat for me to have one of my good friends from back in the day.

00:04:42.632 --> 00:04:54.632
I managed cutting room recording studios and at a certain point our world's collided and we met And I've just always been thrilled with your professional career from a distance.

00:04:54.632 --> 00:04:57.488
So thanks for sharing some time and coming on and talking to us about it.

00:04:57.488 --> 00:05:08.708
I want to get started with, for our audience purposes, there's a lot of different kinds of engineers in this business, in the audio engineering business, but you are specifically a mixing engineer.

00:05:08.708 --> 00:05:16.086
So what distinguishes a mixing engineer from someone who's a mastering engineer or someone who's just cuts vocals, et cetera?

00:05:16.086 --> 00:05:20.750
Give us exactly what it is that you are and what you bring to the world.

00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:25.266
So what I do specifically now?

00:05:25.266 --> 00:05:47.413
I mean, i did come up as a recording engineer and I do believe that if you are going into the engineering field, audio engineering field that you need to come up as a recording engineer and you need to understand what an instrument sounds like, what a voice sounds like, how to record it properly And this sort of starts training your ear on how specific sounds kind of fit into the puzzle.

00:05:47.413 --> 00:05:56.610
So what I do is I get the entire song when it's finished And I sort of what I like to call create the emotion of the record.

00:05:56.610 --> 00:06:11.504
So, for instance, when you hear a song and you hear like a very lush reverberation on the vocal, that's usually the mixing engineer that handles that job And that's just a small piece of it.

00:06:11.504 --> 00:06:22.447
The role has changed tremendously since I've worked with Larry Shea back in the day, where Well, you should refer to him as Dr.

00:06:22.627 --> 00:06:23.350
Larry Shea.

00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:25.439
I've always referred to him as a sound engineer at large.

00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.807
I've only referred to him as Mrs Shea.

00:06:27.807 --> 00:06:33.766
So No, apparently it's Dr Shea This is all we ever get from him, so yeah, it's Dr Shea.

00:06:33.826 --> 00:06:34.569
I'm going to change that.

00:06:34.569 --> 00:06:53.490
So when I worked with Dr Shea it was different, because what would happen was the opportunities came when you were a recording engineer, and the reason that happened was because in the late 90s, early 2000s, you were still working on these big analog consoles where the artists would come in.

00:06:53.490 --> 00:07:04.586
They would record a song, the engineer would get to do what was called a rough mix And that was sort of your time to shine to say, hey, i could make this sound a little bit better than what it sounds like now.

00:07:04.586 --> 00:07:22.670
And sometimes the artist would say to you, hey, that sounds great If you mixed before or do you want to mix this record which, believe it or not, my first mixing credit came from the cutting room, from that specific, from that reason itself was that I got a chance to do a rough mix and I got to mix a record.

00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:33.870
But what happens now, where things have changed, is that now, with the rise of the home studios and the computers, everyone has the same opportunity.

00:07:33.870 --> 00:07:35.884
Everybody has the same tools.

00:07:35.884 --> 00:07:45.588
What distinguishes me from the rest, or an artist or producer, is the fact that my ear is tuned to just making things sound right.

00:07:45.588 --> 00:07:50.971
So what happens, is where you used to spend a day of recording and then a rough mix.

00:07:50.971 --> 00:08:01.603
The artist could actually be sitting with that same song for months at a time just tweaking this, their version of a rough mix, by the time you get it.

00:08:01.603 --> 00:08:03.951
We like to call it demoitis.

00:08:03.951 --> 00:08:06.007
The artist has tons of demoitis.

00:08:06.007 --> 00:08:08.187
They've been sitting on that song forever.

00:08:08.187 --> 00:08:22.805
So for you to come in the art is not to make it sound better, it's to keep the feel of the record, but make it sound better off of what Dave already created in their proper studio.

00:08:22.805 --> 00:08:24.005
That makes any sense.

00:08:25.271 --> 00:08:25.471
All right.

00:08:25.471 --> 00:08:32.812
So, ariel, did you start out as a musician or did you just, or did your love of?

00:08:32.812 --> 00:08:40.418
I guess my question is, like you know, where did your love of mixing, this notion of love of sound, come into your life?

00:08:40.418 --> 00:08:44.080
Because you know, i mean I'm not an engineer.

00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:51.841
I mean I've done radio for many years and obviously I've worked behind the sound board myself, but obviously I'm nowhere near the type of level that you are.

00:08:51.841 --> 00:08:55.763
So my love of sound started, you know, early on.

00:08:55.763 --> 00:08:59.297
I did, i did some, you know, i was in bands and then I did radio etc.

00:08:59.297 --> 00:09:01.837
Like where did your love start out for you?

00:09:01.837 --> 00:09:03.134
Like where did that begin with you?

00:09:03.134 --> 00:09:03.937
Did it start out with him?

00:09:03.937 --> 00:09:06.639
Did it start out in the music room and things of that nature?

00:09:06.830 --> 00:09:10.058
Well, in the music room, yes, in elementary school, believe it or not.

00:09:10.058 --> 00:09:15.080
So I I was very shy growing up.

00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:17.899
One of the reasons was that I wasn't born here.

00:09:17.899 --> 00:09:19.275
I was born in Argentina.

00:09:19.275 --> 00:09:22.798
So I came here when I was five years old and I didn't speak English.

00:09:22.798 --> 00:09:26.619
So I've always I started off being really shy.

00:09:26.619 --> 00:09:37.798
So somewhere around second grade, i believe it was, we used to have music class right And used to do these holiday concerts and I refused to sing.

00:09:37.798 --> 00:09:42.139
So I remember my teacher God, what was her name?

00:09:42.139 --> 00:09:52.972
Mrs Mrs Marion, that was her name And she had one of those, and I don't know how old everyone is I'm 46, so we'll, we'll, we'll talk about those, we've all got you, so we'll have a bunch of.

00:09:53.133 --> 00:09:54.576
we'll have a bunch of Mrs Marion, okay.

00:09:56.350 --> 00:10:01.580
So you guys remember those old stackable stereos with the turntable on top, and then they're used.

00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.042
Oh, my God, that's what it was.

00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:14.977
So hers had a 32 band graphic equalizer right below there, right, and I remember seeing this and then it had cool colors where, like every time the beat hit, like there was like some, some, some lights that went on.

00:10:14.977 --> 00:10:17.023
Yeah, the lights would pop, et cetera.

00:10:17.023 --> 00:10:20.320
And I remember saying to her I want to do that.

00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:21.715
And she's like what do you want to do?

00:10:21.715 --> 00:10:31.863
And I was like I'll handle playing the music for everyone, right, and I I clearly remember this And I don't know how, like these memories as a kid are still there.

00:10:31.863 --> 00:10:39.001
But I remember tweaking those equalizers and being like, wow, if I move this one up, there's more bass.

00:10:39.001 --> 00:10:44.543
I didn't know it was bass, but you know it would say 60 Hertz, 250 Hertz, the high end.

00:10:44.690 --> 00:10:45.599
So you were mixing your own.

00:10:45.599 --> 00:10:46.690
You were mixing band concerts.

00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:48.815
I mean, listen, it was, i was.

00:10:48.815 --> 00:10:51.662
I was mixing things that were ready, mixed already.

00:10:51.662 --> 00:11:01.782
I mean no, i mean it wasn't like I was doing it, but I was mixing like, let's say, we were singing, you know, i don't know, uh, some Christmas song and it was on a cassette.

00:11:01.782 --> 00:11:04.216
My job was just to press, play and stop, right.

00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:10.162
But I started using that equalizer and I remember looking at my best friend Mark, and I'm like did you hear that?

00:11:10.162 --> 00:11:11.172
Look what I just did?

00:11:11.172 --> 00:11:13.138
you know, and nobody knew what the hell I was doing.

00:11:13.138 --> 00:11:15.452
But that was the beginning for me.

00:11:15.452 --> 00:11:16.875
But I did start.

00:11:16.875 --> 00:11:30.894
I got really into guitar And I don't I well, first, before that, i wanted to play the saxophone, because I think once you hit third grade you were allowed to pick an instrument, but everybody wanted saxophone or drums.

00:11:30.894 --> 00:11:33.770
Somehow I ended up with the clarinet and I was.

00:11:33.770 --> 00:11:42.270
I was a damn good clarinet player because my grandfather was really into classical music and old bebop and apparently who I never met.

00:11:42.270 --> 00:11:45.885
My great grandfather composed classical music in Argentina.

00:11:45.927 --> 00:11:46.690
Get out of here.

00:11:46.870 --> 00:11:48.293
So I didn't know this until later.

00:11:48.293 --> 00:11:50.640
But my grandfather kept bringing up.

00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:51.413
I mean, this was.

00:11:51.413 --> 00:11:57.894
He was in Argentina, he didn't live here, but he used to say to me, oh, benny Goodman, he used to say Benny Goodman, that's all he used to say to me, right?

00:11:57.894 --> 00:12:02.841
So I was playing, um, i was good, i was really good.

00:12:02.841 --> 00:12:03.793
I played in the band.

00:12:03.793 --> 00:12:07.846
Um, never really loved the clarinet, but it was better than you know.

00:12:07.846 --> 00:12:09.212
The next option was the flute.

00:12:09.212 --> 00:12:11.655
So I ended up playing that.

00:12:11.756 --> 00:12:24.898
And then in fifth grade or sixth grade they had this thing through the town where it was like six guitar lessons for you know 50 bucks And I told, turned to my mom and said I need to take lessons.

00:12:24.898 --> 00:12:35.381
So I just went in there and I was really into like rock and heavy metal at the time And I took a guitar with this guy named Jamie Andreas who could give a shit about me.

00:12:35.381 --> 00:12:40.308
Um, he, i think he was just trying to make a buck and I really didn't learn much.

00:12:40.308 --> 00:12:49.998
But I did learn like a blue scale and I took that blue scale and I started teaching myself Um, and that became my first.

00:12:49.998 --> 00:12:52.984
I did want to become a rock star, obviously.

00:12:53.913 --> 00:12:56.890
And um, i learned early, yeah, early on.

00:12:56.890 --> 00:12:57.695
That didn't happen.

00:12:57.695 --> 00:13:02.059
I remember being with a band and a bunch of people showed up to our rehearsal and I froze.

00:13:02.181 --> 00:13:02.562
Oh no.

00:13:03.049 --> 00:13:19.139
I'm not going to perform in front of people And in sixth grade a buddy of mine made me a cassette and on one side was Slayer was dubbed on it, and on the other side was Run DMC raising hell.

00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:32.672
And I remember researching it at the time like I'm researching, i mean at the time it was like MTV, and I remember hearing about this gentleman named Rick Rubin and I said, man, he did both of that.

00:13:32.672 --> 00:13:42.119
So I find out that it's like some like white Jewish guy from Long Island And I said, oh my God, who is this mysterious Rick Rubin?

00:13:42.119 --> 00:13:48.591
And um, yeah, i at that point I said I want to do what he does, but I didn't know what he did.

00:13:49.649 --> 00:13:54.341
So, fast forward after high school, not even high school, let's get into high school.

00:13:54.341 --> 00:13:59.519
Uh, i was playing, i was a jock and um, what did you play?

00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:00.942
What did I play?

00:14:00.942 --> 00:14:03.477
Soccer was obviously my first love.

00:14:03.477 --> 00:14:05.115
So I played soccer in high school.

00:14:05.115 --> 00:14:12.542
I played traveling team, um, in the winter, in the fall, i think, no, spring.

00:14:12.542 --> 00:14:18.457
It was, um, lacrosse and uh, other than baseball at times.

00:14:18.457 --> 00:14:34.922
Like, i played baseball a lot, but I wasn't really like, i still have a real love for baseball, but soccer was my first thing, and lacrosse was great because my best friend was into it and two of his brothers played division one, uh, and one of them was like one of the best college players at the time.

00:14:34.922 --> 00:14:38.482
You played for Syracuse and they won like all four years of like the national.

00:14:38.503 --> 00:14:39.847
He must have been good Cues has had.

00:14:39.868 --> 00:14:46.714
Cues's program is unbelievable, I mean he played with uh two, the two famous lacrosse players called the gate brothers, the twins that pretty much.

00:14:46.734 --> 00:14:48.158
I remember they played for the Buffalo.

00:14:48.158 --> 00:14:50.696
I think they played for the Buffalo team, which is where I grew up.

00:14:50.855 --> 00:14:58.775
They were great, they did Right, and my buddy's uh brother played for the Denver rifles professionally, so it's the same, it was the same league.

00:14:58.775 --> 00:15:03.916
So I was, you know, just by default, i, you know, he's like my brother, so, like I, used to play lacrosse.

00:15:03.916 --> 00:15:06.437
So I got caught by the lacrosse coach.

00:15:06.437 --> 00:15:11.542
Um, we had, we had, a smoking section and I got caught smoking a cigarette.

00:15:11.542 --> 00:15:21.076
So I um, i was, uh, i was kicked off and I remember my dad said to me that I need to find something in activity to do after school.

00:15:21.076 --> 00:15:33.916
And I was walking by the auditorium We had this beautiful auditorium in high school And the next thing, i know, i looked and I see this thing, a console in the back, and I remember asking the guy said what is that And who, who, who works that?

00:15:34.330 --> 00:15:35.072
And he goes me.

00:15:35.072 --> 00:15:39.159
But I'm looking for someone, just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:40.903
I said, look at that, i'll do that.

00:15:40.903 --> 00:15:46.020
It wasn't really what I wanted to do because I'm not a live you know audio guy.

00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:50.039
So I did it and I was e-queuing and doing things.

00:15:50.039 --> 00:16:00.330
I don't know if it sounded good, but nobody complained, except for the time that I forgot to shut one of the guy's lab mics and he went into the bathroom and it must have been like 700 people.

00:16:01.654 --> 00:16:02.638
I don't even want to tell you so.

00:16:04.333 --> 00:16:05.639
So I remember that clearly.

00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.336
So, anyway, so that was the start with now.

00:16:09.336 --> 00:16:20.513
I infused Rick Rubin into it and at some point Metallica came out with a V double VHS for the people that don't know what VHS are, Do your research.

00:16:20.513 --> 00:16:22.673
And it was.

00:16:22.673 --> 00:16:29.817
It was the making of the black album, And I watched that so many times.

00:16:30.078 --> 00:16:30.880
I studied it.

00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:32.232
My mother was just.

00:16:32.232 --> 00:16:48.017
Every time she'd walk into the living room I was watching it And I became fascinated with what I learned was the recording studio And I said wait, so you can do something in music, be famous, but not be known, Because I don't like attention.

00:16:48.017 --> 00:16:49.336
I've never liked attention.

00:16:49.336 --> 00:16:54.441
I never got into it for any type of attention other than just I love the studio.

00:16:54.441 --> 00:16:55.342
It's like home for me.

00:16:55.342 --> 00:16:59.279
You know, I've always I feel so comfortable in the studio, no matter where in the world.

00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.739
And I watched that and I became fascinated.

00:17:02.739 --> 00:17:07.954
And it was at that point I said I want to do what they do And I still didn't have an idea.

00:17:07.954 --> 00:17:15.371
So right after high school, I wasn't a great student in 12th grade, you know, and I said I'm going to go to.

00:17:15.371 --> 00:17:32.355
My idea was to go to community college and then go to NYU, because there wasn't that many programs And Larry and I were talking about this, that you know, I think Lowell, Massachusetts and yeah, University of Massachusetts at Lowell.

00:17:32.516 --> 00:17:36.036
Yeah, NYU was one Purchase purchase had one.

00:17:36.036 --> 00:17:38.723
Miami was a great, great recording school.

00:17:38.743 --> 00:17:45.057
Miami was one I know like some great engineers that came out of there, Larry you got your PhD at Lowell, was that right?

00:17:45.790 --> 00:17:58.538
So you know, Ariel, every once in a while I got a without my degree and show these guys that I am a music performance major with an emphasis in sound recording from the University of Massachusetts at Lowell, and they make fun of me.

00:17:58.538 --> 00:17:59.740
Could you imagine?

00:18:00.221 --> 00:18:00.963
We get good ideas.

00:18:00.963 --> 00:18:05.954
We always manage to tell us this, You know every once in a while.

00:18:05.974 --> 00:18:08.541
I love it, man, i love it, i love it.

00:18:08.541 --> 00:18:12.454
Hey, man, i believe you Don't worry about it, i'm the, i'm the one that matters.

00:18:13.471 --> 00:18:14.817
So, Ariel, sorry for cutting you off.

00:18:14.817 --> 00:18:16.915
So NYU, is that where you?

00:18:16.915 --> 00:18:17.959
that's where you went next.

00:18:18.210 --> 00:18:19.114
That's where I wanted to go.

00:18:19.509 --> 00:18:34.897
So what happened was I took an AV class and as one of my classes at college, at the community college, and the guy had a sound board in the back and the teacher said to me, every day after class I would just sit there and fidget with him.

00:18:34.897 --> 00:18:36.317
He's like, is that something you want to do?

00:18:36.317 --> 00:18:37.703
And I said, what's that?

00:18:37.703 --> 00:18:38.890
He goes audio engineer.

00:18:38.890 --> 00:18:40.355
And I said what's an audio engineer?

00:18:40.355 --> 00:18:45.178
And he goes let me do this, let me give you, let me connect you with my son.

00:18:45.178 --> 00:18:46.795
I'll give you his number, call him.

00:18:46.795 --> 00:18:48.420
And he's an audio engineer.

00:18:48.589 --> 00:18:53.803
So I remember calling this guy up and he said so what do you want to do?

00:18:53.803 --> 00:18:55.496
And I said I want to be an audio engineer.

00:18:55.496 --> 00:19:01.736
And he goes, well, if you want to do that, what's your plan?

00:19:01.736 --> 00:19:04.111
So I told him my plan He goes, well, you could do that.

00:19:04.111 --> 00:19:06.712
And after five years, clean bathrooms.

00:19:06.712 --> 00:19:18.609
Or you can go to this school for nine months and clean bathrooms And me, being the lazy one that I am, i mean in some regards, i'm like I'm gonna go there for nine months.

00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:24.594
So there was a school that closed down about three years ago, i believe it was now.

00:19:24.594 --> 00:19:28.596
It was the first specialized audio school in the nation.

00:19:28.596 --> 00:19:30.913
It was called the Institute of Audio Research.

00:19:30.913 --> 00:19:33.272
It opened up in 1968.

00:19:33.272 --> 00:19:40.057
It was on University Avenue between, i believe it was Right in.

00:19:40.077 --> 00:19:43.760
Manhattan Yeah 9th and 10th Street, I think it was, if I'm not mistaken.

00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:44.605
Yep, i remember this place.

00:19:44.605 --> 00:19:46.311
I kind of remember that name.

00:19:46.311 --> 00:19:48.210
There used to be like a big bag A-I-R.

00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:49.490
They were I-A-R, i-a-r.

00:19:49.724 --> 00:19:52.211
And then they had the Dagestino was downstairs.

00:19:52.211 --> 00:19:53.770
That's how I remember the Dagestino.

00:19:53.770 --> 00:20:07.094
So I remember I told my dad, and my dad you know, my dad's very Argentinian, very, you know came here with nothing and worked his ass off multiple jobs.

00:20:07.094 --> 00:20:14.792
And he is one of these people that's like as long as you make a paycheck, you know, and that's how, and you can support yourself, great.

00:20:14.792 --> 00:20:23.071
So we go for a meeting with the head of the school And I remember my dad asked him how much can I expect my son to make?

00:20:23.071 --> 00:20:24.185
And I will.

00:20:24.185 --> 00:20:30.553
And my dad has a very thick Argentine accent And he says to my daddy goes, he'll be lucky to make five and a quarter.

00:20:30.553 --> 00:20:33.632
My dad looked at me and says you better make a quarter of that, right?

00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:41.692
And I remember we walked out of there that day and we went to get breakfast And my dad's, like you, really better make more money than that.

00:20:41.692 --> 00:20:48.731
I think my parents still think that you know, this is all a joke at some some days, i don't know.

00:20:48.731 --> 00:20:55.836
So I went there, for I started at Institute of Audio Research in August of 1996.

00:20:55.836 --> 00:21:07.472
And that previous to that, that same summer my father got me and my brother a ticket to go to Argentina And I graduated high school in 95.

00:21:08.884 --> 00:21:17.134
And I went to Argentina and I remember my grandfather and uncle did some research and I ended up going to see this studio in Argentina.

00:21:17.134 --> 00:21:18.611
It was a very famous studio.

00:21:18.611 --> 00:21:23.234
I got a tour of it And that obviously made me even more excited.

00:21:23.234 --> 00:21:26.609
And the guy says if you ever want to move here, i'll give you a job.

00:21:26.609 --> 00:21:27.828
And I said I don't think so.

00:21:27.828 --> 00:21:28.892
But you know, thank you.

00:21:28.892 --> 00:21:31.209
And I went there.

00:21:31.209 --> 00:21:31.671
I got the.

00:21:31.671 --> 00:21:36.586
I started at Institute of Audio Research And this was actually my best friend, mark and I.

00:21:36.586 --> 00:21:47.573
He was going to FIT And we decided to get student housing together And there was a student housing building on 58, 57th and ninth on the corner.

00:21:47.573 --> 00:21:48.990
It's now called the Hudson Hotel.

00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:50.148
It's a fancy hotel.

00:21:50.148 --> 00:21:53.012
Back then it was more of a crackhead hotel.

00:21:53.125 --> 00:21:54.009
So not as fancy.

00:21:54.009 --> 00:21:57.346
Literally I mean, when I tell you guys listen.

00:21:57.405 --> 00:22:01.115
My next door neighbor ready for this was Nipsey Russell.

00:22:01.586 --> 00:22:01.685
Oh.

00:22:02.924 --> 00:22:04.910
And he lived in a That, he say, wasn't fancy.

00:22:05.707 --> 00:22:08.594
No, no, my his apartment, sadly enough.

00:22:08.693 --> 00:22:09.316
Rest in peace.

00:22:09.316 --> 00:22:12.451
Nipsey, it was like a box apartment.

00:22:12.565 --> 00:22:14.814
And his furniture was like milk crates.

00:22:14.814 --> 00:22:18.492
I'm not even making this up, True story, true story, you know.

00:22:18.492 --> 00:22:20.409
So anyway.

00:22:20.409 --> 00:22:25.814
So I went there about two weeks into school I thought I was like, oh, this is it, This is audio, I'm going to love it.

00:22:25.814 --> 00:22:31.291
And then I'd start telling my electricity and all this other nonsense which I regret not studying now.

00:22:31.291 --> 00:22:35.932
But two weeks into school I was looking for an internship.

00:22:35.932 --> 00:22:41.611
I said I need to do an internship because they were talking to us about an internship after you're done, I said I can't do an internship.

00:22:41.611 --> 00:22:42.628
Then I got to start now.

00:22:42.628 --> 00:22:53.470
So I was looking inside my CD covers and I was into the Dave Matthews band And I looked up there in one of their albums and I saw Green Street Studios, NYC.

00:22:53.470 --> 00:22:55.153
So I called up.

00:22:55.314 --> 00:22:56.938
I remember that place And I'll never forget.

00:22:57.105 --> 00:22:59.393
Like it was down, yeah, 110 Green Street.

00:22:59.393 --> 00:23:11.115
And I called up and this woman picked up British accent I'll never Sophie was her name And I said, hey, I'm looking to see if you guys are looking for any young guys to clean the toilets over there.

00:23:11.115 --> 00:23:12.724
And she starts laughing.

00:23:12.724 --> 00:23:13.809
She's like you're hired.

00:23:13.809 --> 00:23:17.215
And I said well, how do you know you can trust me, i could be a murderer.

00:23:17.215 --> 00:23:19.931
She goes I don't think so, not if you want to clean toilets.

00:23:19.931 --> 00:23:21.087
So I said OK.

00:23:21.664 --> 00:23:22.971
So I started the next day.

00:23:22.971 --> 00:23:26.193
I went in at, i got out of school at 1.15.

00:23:26.193 --> 00:23:29.253
By 1.30, i walked my ass over there and I was there.

00:23:29.253 --> 00:23:34.034
And I was there for nine months And during that time I met one of my mentors.

00:23:34.034 --> 00:23:36.332
I got to meet Dave Matthews.

00:23:36.444 --> 00:23:49.347
I got to sit in on sessions with all sorts from everyone, from Pete Rock to Steve Lilly White, who produced U2, and Dave Matthews and Fish and all these others, and it was just the best thing So they would get.

00:23:49.347 --> 00:23:59.257
They would say if you clean and make coffee and all this stuff, you can sit in a room and use the patch bay and run signal and all of that.

00:23:59.257 --> 00:24:08.413
So I learned on my own And that's kind of what I did And I had a bit of an ego, because after nine months I'm like am I going to become an assistant engineer?

00:24:08.413 --> 00:24:11.053
Because that's the next step, is you become an assistant.

00:24:11.053 --> 00:24:18.151
And after, when you become an assistant, your job as an assistant engineer is you need to know every piece of equipment.

00:24:18.151 --> 00:24:21.348
You need to know how to run the console better than the engineer.

00:24:21.348 --> 00:24:23.771
So I got the-.

00:24:24.249 --> 00:24:25.217
Yeah, let me stop you right there.

00:24:25.217 --> 00:24:34.153
Let me stop you right there because you're right, You do need to know it better, because what's happening is you know the room and then these outside engineers would come in and you would have to be the guy who shows them.

00:24:34.153 --> 00:24:34.948
Oh, that's over there.

00:24:34.948 --> 00:24:35.811
What do you need?

00:24:35.811 --> 00:24:36.267
Reverb?

00:24:36.267 --> 00:24:37.224
I'll punch that up for you.

00:24:37.224 --> 00:24:45.005
You needed to know these rooms because the guy who was ahead of you was usually an independent contractor coming in, So you were representing Green Street.

00:24:45.005 --> 00:24:49.413
I just want to say to you Green Street, I tried to get an internship there and they rejected me.

00:24:49.413 --> 00:24:50.609
He'd degree in all.

00:24:50.944 --> 00:24:54.721
So, it's something you got the inside scoop to just say You should have used the toilet.

00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:57.373
Excuse, i guess I just didn't offer to clean the toilet.

00:24:57.432 --> 00:24:58.558
You're in the wrong way.

00:24:58.679 --> 00:24:59.343
That's right.

00:24:59.363 --> 00:25:01.971
That's exactly right, obviously because he had his PhDs.

00:25:01.971 --> 00:25:05.090
My name is Dr Larry Shea.

00:25:05.090 --> 00:25:09.644
I'm way above cleaning toilets at this moment, stop it.

00:25:10.246 --> 00:25:11.148
So hold on.

00:25:11.148 --> 00:25:16.872
So you're at Green Street and then you're there for a short period of time nine months, i think.

00:25:16.872 --> 00:25:18.536
You said How do you get to Puffy's?

00:25:18.536 --> 00:25:19.971
You go to Puffy's next, right.

00:25:20.025 --> 00:25:22.093
Puffy's happened very interestingly.

00:25:22.093 --> 00:25:25.609
I mean there's like longer stories before that, but that'll take too long.

00:25:25.609 --> 00:25:52.513
But I grew up and now I live in Suffolk, new York, which is about 45 minutes from Midtown with no traffic, and I grew up here and there used to be a studio here called Bear Track Studios And it was owned by Jay Beckenstein from Spyrogyra And it was a very famous studio To this day, the most gorgeous studio I've ever been in.

00:25:52.513 --> 00:26:09.992
It was in the middle of Harriman State Park in the woods And it was like I mean, this guy had a pool with a grotto and like a basketball court and an old wine cellar built into the mountain that they turn into a reverb chamber, and I mean it was like the creme de la creme, right.

00:26:10.744 --> 00:26:15.537
So I called up there to get, because I couldn't imagine.

00:26:15.537 --> 00:26:21.028
My parents were like we can't afford to send you into the city when you're not making any money, right, because I didn't grow up with any.

00:26:21.028 --> 00:26:23.832
We didn't have money growing up, you know.

00:26:23.832 --> 00:26:29.210
And so I called up the studio and I said are you guys looking for any help?

00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:31.372
They're like no, but we're looking for a secretary.

00:26:31.372 --> 00:26:35.148
I said look, i may not be the best looking secretary, but I can do the job.

00:26:35.148 --> 00:26:36.534
What are you looking for?

00:26:36.534 --> 00:26:40.353
They're like well, we're looking for someone from 6 pm until the clients are done.

00:26:40.353 --> 00:26:41.569
I said, bet, i'm in.

00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:47.337
So I was getting paid $7 an hour and Things are getting better.

00:26:47.705 --> 00:26:49.386
It's more than five and a quarter, Hey man.

00:26:49.448 --> 00:26:50.792
I made it right at that point.

00:26:51.646 --> 00:26:54.454
And I was sleeping in my own bedroom at my parents' house.

00:26:55.045 --> 00:26:55.647
So it was a win.

00:26:55.647 --> 00:27:04.665
And so I got the job there and I became see, i was always calculated in the business, you know.

00:27:04.665 --> 00:27:06.613
Everyone said you should get in with the engineer.

00:27:06.613 --> 00:27:11.053
I got in with the assistant engineer And when I got in with him we became close.

00:27:11.053 --> 00:27:16.593
This guy named Rick And Rick said to me you know, i'm gonna be, i plan on leaving here within a few months.

00:27:16.593 --> 00:27:18.893
I said, wow, what are they gonna do for assistant?

00:27:18.893 --> 00:27:20.290
He's like I'm gonna train you.

00:27:20.290 --> 00:27:29.913
And when it was time to go, rick basically told them, like Ariel's the guy, he knows the room inside and out And it wasn't an easy room at all.

00:27:30.025 --> 00:27:31.671
It was probably the hardest room I worked in.

00:27:31.671 --> 00:27:35.433
They were very specific about everything you know.

00:27:35.433 --> 00:27:41.497
So I ended up working there for a few months and did well.

00:27:41.497 --> 00:27:45.634
And then I got fired for mislabeling a dat tape or something like that.

00:27:45.634 --> 00:27:46.277
It was crazy.

00:27:46.277 --> 00:27:49.233
Like I missed, i forgot to label the last song on the safety.

00:27:49.233 --> 00:27:52.369
There was a master in the safety And I got fired.

00:27:52.369 --> 00:28:02.328
The manager there, who shall remain nameless, apologized to me years later after I came in as an independent contractor in a big facility.

00:28:02.328 --> 00:28:06.871
He was managing him in Manhattan for an A level artist, but that's a whole nother thing.

00:28:06.871 --> 00:28:09.692
But yeah, he basically admitted that.

00:28:10.186 --> 00:28:11.009
It wasn't me, guys.

00:28:11.009 --> 00:28:12.631
It wasn't me, it wasn't you, dr Lyle.

00:28:12.631 --> 00:28:13.968
Oh, i'm clear.

00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:22.955
So I ended up I got fired And the next day I sent out 45 resumes.

00:28:22.955 --> 00:28:29.050
But the funny thing, is, was that all the resumes I sent out I found I realized was I wasn't putting them face down.

00:28:29.231 --> 00:28:31.352
Oh no, they were setting black pieces of paper.

00:28:31.352 --> 00:28:32.951
Oh my God, no, get out of here.

00:28:34.851 --> 00:28:35.413
So yes.

00:28:38.231 --> 00:28:43.074
So the next day I resent them, and within 15 minutes we had.

00:28:43.193 --> 00:28:44.769
you know I had a pager at the time.

00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:48.231
I wasn't dealing drugs, i just wanted to be cool at the time.

00:28:48.231 --> 00:28:58.911
So I got a pager and I see this number come up and I call up and they're like this is Daddy's house recording studios And you sent us a resume.

00:28:58.911 --> 00:29:02.454
Could you come in for an interview on Friday?

00:29:02.454 --> 00:29:04.491
And I think this was like on Wednesday.

00:29:05.184 --> 00:29:13.028
So I remember I went to like I think I went to Banana Republic and bought like an outfit to wear which I don't think I needed but probably helped me get the job.

00:29:13.028 --> 00:29:15.386
And I went in.

00:29:15.386 --> 00:29:21.101
it was in August and I'm in like a partial suit and I went in.

00:29:21.101 --> 00:29:32.376
they did one interview with the manager and then she said, and this was her totally testing me, she's like come back in four hours and you're gonna interview with the head assistant.

00:29:32.376 --> 00:29:34.277
I said you want me to be outside?

00:29:34.277 --> 00:29:36.893
She goes, yes, so I come back.

00:29:36.893 --> 00:29:42.012
I got like you know sweat marks all over and I'm like ready to go and they hired me.

00:29:42.012 --> 00:29:51.824
So I got the job there in August of 97 it was around that time.

00:29:51.824 --> 00:29:52.765
No, it's 98.

00:29:52.765 --> 00:29:53.874
I can't even remember, man.

00:29:53.874 --> 00:29:54.936
time is so fucked up.

00:29:54.936 --> 00:29:59.335
All I remember was I started the cutting room in 99 or something like that.

00:29:59.335 --> 00:30:00.733
So I got to.

00:30:02.298 --> 00:30:03.340
so I worked at Puffy's.

00:30:03.340 --> 00:30:05.897
I got the gig one day that I was an intern.

00:30:05.897 --> 00:30:08.298
They asked me do you know how to set up a microphone?

00:30:08.298 --> 00:30:10.196
I said yep, i set up a microphone.

00:30:10.196 --> 00:30:14.296
the next day I'm assisting and I'm on salary And I loved it.

00:30:14.296 --> 00:30:15.574
I worked my ass off.

00:30:15.574 --> 00:30:20.971
they loved me there And this is a good segue to how I met Larry was.

00:30:20.971 --> 00:30:22.856
there was an engineer named Ken Lewis.

00:30:22.856 --> 00:30:28.636
Puffy had a group of engineers that you know were the same guys over and over.

00:30:28.636 --> 00:30:37.858
So you built a relationship with them And all of them liked me because I gave a shit right, i really cared about what I did and I wanted to make everything go smooth.

00:30:37.858 --> 00:30:41.694
I had a great relationship with Puffy because I wasn't a yes man.

00:30:41.694 --> 00:30:42.518
I never was.

00:30:42.518 --> 00:30:44.277
I was always honest about things.

00:30:44.277 --> 00:30:48.017
You know, everyone around him was like yeah, that's great, that's great.

00:30:48.017 --> 00:30:49.240
And then he'd look at me what do you think?

00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:50.315
And I'm like I don't think it's good.

00:30:50.315 --> 00:30:51.768
And he was like that's what I'm talking about.

00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:52.834
He's not a yes man.

00:30:55.496 --> 00:30:56.619
So I met Ken Lewis.

00:30:56.619 --> 00:31:04.233
He did a session for Missy Elliott tracking vocals, and he asked me he's like hey, man, you're really good As an assistant.

00:31:04.233 --> 00:31:05.298
Do you have a resume?

00:31:05.298 --> 00:31:08.556
Always carried resumes on me And this time they weren't blank.

00:31:10.112 --> 00:31:13.359
So, I gave him a resume and months went by.

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:21.380
I didn't hear anything And I got my first paid vacation in that summer And, trust me, i wasn't getting paid that much.

00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:38.837
I was putting in like 80 hours a week and I was getting under $400 a week living in New York And I was on vacation and I get a call, my pager goes off and I call up and Dr Larry Shea calls me.

00:31:41.013 --> 00:31:42.638
And the rest as they say is history.

00:31:44.372 --> 00:31:49.674
We got your resume from Ken Lewis and we wanna see if you're be interested in taking this job.

00:31:49.674 --> 00:31:52.038
And I said I gotta get back to you.

00:31:52.038 --> 00:31:57.301
And my manager at Puffy Studio was.

00:31:57.301 --> 00:31:59.046
I adored her.

00:31:59.046 --> 00:32:02.559
She was the meanest person, but she had your.

00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:11.036
she was mean in the sense that she just pushed you to be the best you can be, but she always had your back, no matter what, and you couldn't lie to her.

00:32:11.036 --> 00:32:12.692
That's great, honestly, that's great.

00:32:13.730 --> 00:32:21.115
So I remember calling her and I said Felicia, i don't know how to tell you this, but I got a job.

00:32:21.115 --> 00:32:27.336
they want me to start next week And I don't know if I'm gonna take it because I'm not giving you two weeks notice.

00:32:27.336 --> 00:32:28.510
She goes.

00:32:28.510 --> 00:32:30.217
I think it was that Friday.

00:32:30.217 --> 00:32:35.477
I got called to go in on Monday to meet with Ken And they were at the time working at it.

00:32:35.477 --> 00:32:42.037
They were finishing up at Electric Lady Studios with Mike Mangini, the producer, and that's where I was going to interview with them.

00:32:42.037 --> 00:32:43.913
So I remember going in.

00:32:43.913 --> 00:32:48.397
I remember Felicia says to me if you don't take the job, i'm gonna fire you.

00:32:48.397 --> 00:32:49.270
She goes.

00:32:49.270 --> 00:32:54.232
I always told you this is a stepping stone, this is not a career, wow.

00:32:54.575 --> 00:32:57.037
So, okay, hold on, let me, yeah, cause this is hold on.

00:32:57.037 --> 00:33:02.538
This is big though, because we were I don't wanna say desperate for good recording engineers.

00:33:02.538 --> 00:33:06.515
We had some guys, you know, and we had a main room and we had we had a B room.

00:33:06.515 --> 00:33:13.718
But, you know, when all things were in flux, when we would have four sessions a day, you know you can't keep your engineer on that next session.

00:33:13.718 --> 00:33:20.015
So we needed guys, we needed a rotation, but we bigger than that, needed somebody who was gonna buy into the cutting room family.

00:33:20.015 --> 00:33:26.857
So we our audience doesn't know this So I was the manager, the studio manager, of cutting room recording studios for about three years.

00:33:26.857 --> 00:33:35.717
And, yeah, i remember getting your resume from Ken Lewis and the owner, dave Craifa Dave, big shout out And him saying to me like you gotta get someone hired, man.

00:33:35.717 --> 00:33:45.536
And I called you and I basically correct me if I'm wrong, but I was like I need you to start next week or I'm gonna move to the next name on my list essentially Cause I had to get that job done.

00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:46.674
I don't know if you remember that.

00:33:46.674 --> 00:33:50.454
I remember clearly that it was like we need you by next week.

00:33:50.454 --> 00:33:56.957
You know, and you know what people don't know is, i think me working at Puffy's.

00:33:56.957 --> 00:34:01.941
That was the hardest job I've ever had because you're dealing with.

00:34:01.941 --> 00:34:03.467
It was funny.

00:34:03.467 --> 00:34:07.395
When Puffy was there my job became easier because there was one Puffy.

00:34:07.615 --> 00:34:08.257
Oh, interesting.

00:34:08.385 --> 00:34:10.371
When Puffy wasn't there during the day, everybody won.

00:34:10.371 --> 00:34:10.913
I get that.

00:34:10.913 --> 00:34:13.010
I understand that 100% Right.

00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:20.211
Everyone had an ego and you were dealing with egos, so that was hard.

00:34:20.211 --> 00:34:25.706
So I remember going in, met Ken, i think.

00:34:25.706 --> 00:34:33.574
Afterwards I went, i walked over to the cutting room, i met Larry and Dave and I dropped everything and I got the job.

00:34:33.574 --> 00:34:38.856
And I remember the first week I was there I said wow.

00:34:38.856 --> 00:34:45.376
I remember I think the one session ended at 11 and everybody's like all right, we're going to close up.

00:34:45.764 --> 00:34:50.291
He's going to do the alarm tonight And I'm like wait, what You know, because I never left.

00:34:50.291 --> 00:34:56.369
You know when I left Puffy's, it would be when his security would call up and be like Mr Combs is asleep, wow.

00:34:56.369 --> 00:35:05.592
And you'd be like everybody can go home now And you're like what You know, okay, so it was like four or five in the morning, six in the morning, seven in the morning, and then I'd have to come back by 10 or 11.

00:35:06.045 --> 00:35:10.436
And times I would sleep at the studio under the console to get the heat from the tubes, literally.

00:35:10.436 --> 00:35:13.893
So I remember like the cutting room was like a walk in the park to me.

00:35:13.893 --> 00:35:18.114
That first week I was like oh my God, this is the best job ever.

00:35:18.114 --> 00:35:23.554
I was like everybody's so nice Like me, and Larry hit it off like right away.

00:35:23.554 --> 00:35:25.731
I hit it off with everybody there.

00:35:25.731 --> 00:35:27.693
There used to be the head engineer there was.

00:35:27.693 --> 00:35:31.507
Was was this guy named Nasty who I'm still very good friend.

00:35:31.547 --> 00:35:31.889
Nasty.

00:35:32.351 --> 00:35:32.612
Right.

00:35:33.804 --> 00:35:34.389
I still talk to.

00:35:34.409 --> 00:35:35.215
Nasty all the time.

00:35:35.215 --> 00:35:42.492
I do too, and Nasty still, one of my favorite people He's still to this day Like we talk about and he's like you were, the like he would always.

00:35:42.492 --> 00:35:44.108
Ariel needs to be on my sessions.

00:35:44.108 --> 00:35:47.413
Ariel And I remember with Nasty sessions it was so easy.

00:35:47.413 --> 00:35:51.494
I'm like, okay, all I got to do is set up and he just needs to press record and it's all good.

00:35:52.204 --> 00:35:57.617
Well, because a big part, a big part of what you do for a job is making the client happy.

00:35:57.617 --> 00:35:59.911
Like it's not an easy job, right?

00:35:59.911 --> 00:36:01.155
These guys are artists.

00:36:01.155 --> 00:36:03.976
They come in, they want to do their art and create their music.

00:36:03.976 --> 00:36:07.952
But you know it's very easy to do something that maybe they're not happy with.

00:36:07.952 --> 00:36:16.505
So when you find somebody who's good at what they do, like you, like Nasty, and someone who could you in the morning, i would read in the log man client is thrilled.

00:36:16.505 --> 00:36:19.574
Can't you, can't wait to start again tonight, or whatever.

00:36:19.594 --> 00:36:22.710
Right And that's not an easy thing to do.

00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:25.155
We had logs, that's right.

00:36:25.155 --> 00:36:26.197
We knew what happened everywhere.

00:36:26.764 --> 00:36:26.965
So I have.

00:36:26.965 --> 00:36:28.070
I have two questions.

00:36:28.070 --> 00:36:33.755
Sure, first is I guess we're both of you, but Ariel, please take it, since you're our guest today.

00:36:33.755 --> 00:36:43.291
First, the cutting room, to me, is a very, very famous place that people who are passionate about music are aware of.

00:36:43.291 --> 00:36:51.934
But for those people who don't know music and may not be as dug in, what's the history of the cutting room and what makes it so special?

00:36:52.626 --> 00:37:02.376
I will, i will, i will hand that off to Larry, because the history I mean I would give the Cliff Notes version of it, but Larry and Dave are very close friends.

00:37:02.376 --> 00:37:08.289
Well, i mean, from what I understand, was that it was like a studio that was started in an Larry.

00:37:08.289 --> 00:37:09.152
Correct me if I'm wrong.

00:37:09.152 --> 00:37:11.971
Was it an apartment building in an apartment?

00:37:11.990 --> 00:37:13.092
No, nyu dorm room.

00:37:13.092 --> 00:37:15.277
Very much like Rick Rubin NYU dorm room.

00:37:15.985 --> 00:37:38.132
And you know, and it was just a very grassroots and you know, built up from the ground up, and you know, as more space was needed, When I came in they were getting rid of, they were changing consoles And, Larry, you might not even remember this You specifically needed somebody that knew the SSL console, SSL Right.

00:37:38.293 --> 00:37:39.516
Yeah, that was a big selling point.

00:37:39.516 --> 00:37:40.516
Do you know the SSL?

00:37:40.516 --> 00:37:54.411
I think it's a good thing that we're doing this about cutting room because it's an amazing place and we we really want to get Dave Craif on the owner because he's that studio is still running right now and we're going to get him on a future show.

00:37:54.411 --> 00:38:02.735
But he did, he started it out of his dorm room and this is a guy who built it from nothing, you know, like a piece of equipment here, a piece of equipment there.

00:38:05.054 --> 00:38:07.204
I had been working for Steely Dan from like 94 to 97.

00:38:07.204 --> 00:38:10.405
I want to say, anyway, it doesn't matter, but I'm working for Steely Dan.

00:38:10.405 --> 00:38:12.733
Steely Dan was hired to be the manager at cutting room.

00:38:12.733 --> 00:38:29.210
They were doing a lot of things right, but they could have, they could have been more professional and stepped it up a bit, and I think I helped them bring things from the studio that I was at before River Sound Steely Dan studio and say, hey, you guys could do this and you could do that and you can make more money doing it this way.

00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:36.385
And I think everything stepped up and we kind of got Dave on his way and then he took the ball and scored 20 touchdowns, essentially So.

00:38:36.385 --> 00:38:38.168
Cutting room is an amazing place.

00:38:38.168 --> 00:38:41.876
A lot of great music happened there, a lot of legendary help.

00:38:41.916 --> 00:38:43.018
And there was an expansion.

00:38:43.018 --> 00:38:47.215
Right When we were there, they expanded to the back room and built the other room.

00:38:47.215 --> 00:38:52.695
So there was a lot of great people that came out of there, great engineers, great producers.

00:38:53.846 --> 00:38:54.889
And what are some examples?

00:38:54.889 --> 00:38:58.090
Ariel, can you run through some of the names and some of the artists that would work out of?

00:38:58.291 --> 00:39:04.777
there I mean everyone from like Black Eyed Peas to and that's a Mob Deep.

00:39:04.777 --> 00:39:07.864
Yeah, big pun to So many.

00:39:10.489 --> 00:39:13.036
Wu Tang, all the Wu Tang crew came through there.

00:39:13.565 --> 00:39:16.498
The Baja Man who let the dogs out, there was, i mean.

00:39:16.824 --> 00:39:22.574
That's Mike Mangini too, right, mike Mangini, i mean, and Bruce Hornsby, a lot of, yeah, great people, right.

00:39:23.545 --> 00:39:25.592
So I mean that's just like just touching the surface.

00:39:25.592 --> 00:39:41.876
But what's funny is I actually did the Black Eyed Peas session thanks to Larry, and that was interesting because I spent a week with those guys and I realized a lot of people didn't give them credit but man, they are super talented.

00:39:41.876 --> 00:39:55.617
I remember we filled the live room up with instruments just like Rhodes and B3s and like guitars and basses, and two drum kits set up and all this And I was like what's this for?

00:39:55.617 --> 00:39:58.472
And he's like, oh will, i am, he loves playing live instruments.

00:39:58.472 --> 00:40:02.791
He'll just jump from one to the next And I remember like, wow, that's crazy.

00:40:02.791 --> 00:40:04.371
And he did.

00:40:05.226 --> 00:40:09.887
But for me I think Larry touched upon it It's very important.

00:40:09.887 --> 00:40:25.567
The vibe of the place And the cutting room was a beautiful facility And there was a lot of beautiful facilities, but the vibe there was just incredible and it showed You know the people.

00:40:25.567 --> 00:40:30.137
For me, the people in the facility is what helps the vibe out.

00:40:30.137 --> 00:40:34.797
The minute you put bad people into place it all goes downhill.

00:40:34.797 --> 00:40:45.210
And we had this beautiful synergy there that to this day it was my favorite job out of any studio I worked at.

00:40:45.210 --> 00:40:57.889
There was this dream I had at the time that it would have lasted forever And we'd be growing old together and getting AARP magazines and stuff like that, you and me both, ariel.

00:40:57.889 --> 00:41:02.952
So I do get them now, but that's a whole nother conversation.

00:41:03.505 --> 00:41:15.347
So I am, you know, it was a beautiful time and I learned, you know, that's where I sort of started engineering more and getting the opportunities to be, you know, getting tracking gigs.

00:41:15.347 --> 00:41:17.230
And Larry would be like are you con?

00:41:17.230 --> 00:41:31.856
and you know the thing Thing that was interesting was Larry always made it made me feel like I can talk to him and if I didn't feel comfortable, we would have conversation like are you know, i don't feel comfortable doing the session, i think someone else should do it, or You know?

00:41:31.856 --> 00:41:42.416
I mean it was an open thing and I didn't feel like if I spoke to him I would get fired for being honest and that was like a big deal for me And it was.

00:41:42.416 --> 00:42:05.865
It made my, it made everything better and I wanted to work harder for the, for the, for the studio, and I was there for a while and then, you know, things took, took a turn and I ended up leaving there And I think at that point was I got a job at a studio called R P M studios.

00:42:06.206 --> 00:42:14.039
Ariel, before you go, before you move on, r P M, i want to kind of ask a quick question in there, like this notion of, as you said, the vibe.

00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:19.007
I agree, the vibe in any place makes it function better or worse, 100% correct.

00:42:19.007 --> 00:42:26.360
So this notion of you know, if I didn't feel comfortable with a client, what does that mean precisely?

00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:27.101
and like what I?

00:42:27.101 --> 00:42:34.371
what I, what I kind of mean, is that okay, as as a mix engineers or recording engineer, i mean, how much input do you have in the club?

00:42:34.371 --> 00:42:43.326
I guess my, my real question is you know, it comes down to this notion of is the customer always right that you know, if they say it's just you know, they pay their way.

00:42:43.326 --> 00:42:49.034
If they say you know it's gonna say we want to play, we want to record it this way, and you say no, no, no, i think it'll sound better this way.

00:42:49.034 --> 00:42:58.253
How, how far do you push it with it with your, with your, with your input, to say, i think this will help accentuate your art form.

00:42:58.253 --> 00:43:00.836
That much better, that's a great question.

00:43:00.936 --> 00:43:06.023
So at the time I was very young and I didn't have that kind of power.

00:43:06.023 --> 00:43:16.054
So when when I would approach Larry about things, it was more about the client maybe having a higher caliber client that I just didn't feel comfortable doing the session.

00:43:16.054 --> 00:43:24.447
Later on in my career people were booking me because of my say when they recorded.

00:43:24.447 --> 00:43:25.509
Does that make sense?

00:43:25.849 --> 00:43:26.630
so you said that about.

00:43:26.630 --> 00:43:32.523
you said that you would probably right, because Puffy seem to to appreciate your can did.

00:43:32.583 --> 00:43:52.612
Puffy appreciated the fact that I made the room function without anyone thinking and I'm talking about little things, like There was always notepads on each table with two sharpened pencils and the notepads were not like almost gone, they were new notepads and if someone needed to write something down, whatever.

00:43:52.612 --> 00:43:56.420
if you heard a client saying, yo man, i don't know what do you think we should eat?

00:43:56.420 --> 00:44:01.572
I grabbed the pen pen paper and said, hey, you guys, are you guys ready for a food order?

00:44:01.572 --> 00:44:03.054
I'll, i'll take it and go get up for you.

00:44:03.054 --> 00:44:16.840
If, puffy, if I hear Puffy saying I don't know, man, we I might want to add ad libs to this I would run into the live room and make sure that the Sony C800 Mike was set up And it was patched ready to go like.

00:44:16.900 --> 00:44:23.534
those are the things I was doing early on, but with the cutting room I was starting to transition as a recording engineer.

00:44:23.534 --> 00:44:35.192
but the irony of it was Was that the guys that were working there, the producers and engineers that were working there like and staff, were asking me to mix like.

00:44:35.192 --> 00:45:02.784
nasty, for instance, was an artist and he was the head engineer And I remember nasty was having me mix his stuff at night, on off hours, because that was the beauty of the cutting room, that was the one thing about the cutting room that separated it from most other studios is that you were allowed, you were encouraged, to use the studio on off hours And that's where you started building your grit and your, your skill and everything else.

00:45:02.784 --> 00:45:06.349
to get confident behind the console and the speakers.

00:45:06.349 --> 00:45:10.739
so nasty was having me mix his Artist stuff and his.

00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:17.204
you know his, you know all of his stuff he was asking me to mix And that's where I started getting the confidence.

00:45:18.054 --> 00:45:20.686
That was part one of our conversation with Ariel Barjoe.

00:45:20.686 --> 00:45:23.054
Larry, thank you so much for setting that up for us.

00:45:24.038 --> 00:45:25.784
Yeah, ariel, such a special guy.

00:45:25.784 --> 00:45:29.322
I love Sharon, my friends when they have a story like that.

00:45:29.322 --> 00:45:33.054
I mean he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty and start from the bottom.

00:45:33.054 --> 00:45:39.320
I mean that's what I love about this story, right is he calls up a place and says I'm going to clean your bathrooms.

00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.123
I mean how great is that?

00:45:41.123 --> 00:45:42.824
but you know, he's not afraid.

00:45:42.864 --> 00:45:43.704
He has a dream.

00:45:43.704 --> 00:45:54.034
He sees, you know, the Metallica video and the Rick Rubin stuff and he gets this spark and finds his place in the world and isn't afraid to work from the bottom up.

00:45:54.034 --> 00:45:57.277
I mean, i talked about it in the open.

00:45:57.277 --> 00:46:26.925
This isn't an intimidating profession sometimes and part of that is dealing with artists, right, and dealing with big stars and big egos and big celebrities, and he's not intimidated by that and that allows him to just do the job but do it in an artistic way and to be a person that people want to work with and ultimately, when we have that kind of a thing going on, you're going to get a lot of work, you're gonna get booked and you're gonna be very successful.

00:46:28.054 --> 00:46:31.320
I think we once said in another, in another interview with someone that you know.

00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:34.949
a lot of times you just have to prove that you're not a moron, right?

00:46:36.114 --> 00:46:36.639
A lot of time to share.

00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:42.518
We're still waiting on you, just so you know, I'm not gonna argue that sometimes.

00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.463
But look, if you can prove that, look you're you have.

00:46:45.463 --> 00:46:52.371
You have a good enough idea to what you're doing, people begin to trust you and then people can just, you know, deal with you.

00:46:52.371 --> 00:47:03.081
That sometimes more than that's more than 50% of the job, but after that, if you can prove that you have a have a great deal of skill, like Ariel has proven right, and I love those stories.

00:47:03.081 --> 00:47:13.693
Like you know what, when I had to it, sometimes when I was working with Puffy, i would sleep in the studio underneath the board just to get warmed from the, just to get warmed from some of the, from some of the tubes.

00:47:13.693 --> 00:47:15.056
I know what that was like.

00:47:15.297 --> 00:47:19.548
I did that once, not that not to the extent of like Ariel, obviously I'm not.

00:47:19.548 --> 00:47:22.054
I'm nowhere near that kind of level, not, you know, none of us are me.

00:47:22.054 --> 00:47:27.639
This guy's on another level than the rest of us, but I understand that kind of mentality.

00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:29.601
It's not easy and you have to stop.

00:47:29.601 --> 00:47:46.054
And what he is is obsessed, right, he's obsessed with doing the job, he's obsessed with getting better and I love this notion of like that moment you find that spark, whatever it is that it, it ignites in you and then you're obsessed with trying to get better at you.

00:47:46.054 --> 00:47:54.349
You're obsessed with trying to discover what it means, and then you become obsessed with trying to become better at it every single moment of every single day.

00:47:55.295 --> 00:47:55.896
Absolutely.

00:47:55.896 --> 00:48:03.989
You know, i was gonna say something similar, which is just say yes, which is the theme that keeps coming up in so many of these conversations.

00:48:03.989 --> 00:48:06.273
He was willing to sweep the floor is it set for?

00:48:06.273 --> 00:48:06.974
it set for?

00:48:06.974 --> 00:48:25.054
but The other thing, moving beyond that, that I thought was very mature on his part, it was to not get caught up in the money, which is so difficult to do when you step into any career, because You've been going to school, you've been paying your tuition, you haven't had any money, you've been sacrificing for so long.

00:48:25.054 --> 00:48:37.228
You're ready to start living at least in some cases, even if even in your early twenties a better life and to have the the wherewithal and the confidence to say you know what?

00:48:37.228 --> 00:48:38.130
no, not yet.

00:48:38.130 --> 00:48:46.780
I know where I'm headed, i know what sacrifices I have to make, i know what this process Feels like it should be and I'm in.

00:48:46.780 --> 00:48:55.692
And the fact that he was willing to take five, fifteen hour to get in a door just to start his journey is worthy of a great deal of respect.

00:48:56.275 --> 00:49:03.677
He has a tireless work ethic and you can just hear it in the way he tells this passionate story right, and I knew that when I hired him.

00:49:03.677 --> 00:49:04.438
That's you know.

00:49:04.438 --> 00:49:17.572
I just saw it every day that he came in, as you said, to his passion about getting better at this and, to be honest with you, i threw him in the fire a lot because I knew he was capable of it.

00:49:17.572 --> 00:49:25.983
He was a great engineer and a great person to work with And I just knew that if he got a little exposed, that people would come back and want to work with him more and he would grow.

00:49:25.983 --> 00:49:39.451
And if I played a little fraction of that in his career, where I gave him that confidence to maybe go do something that he wasn't maybe willing to do beforehand, good, i pushed him off the diving board into the, into the ocean.

00:49:39.451 --> 00:49:40.054
You know what I mean.

00:49:41.737 --> 00:49:44.324
Well, it feels like a lot of different people taught of that.

00:49:44.324 --> 00:49:46.146
He learned that in Puffy's studio.

00:49:46.146 --> 00:49:54.121
It sounds like he was doing just about everything and he kept saying yes, but, to his credit, he also, it sounds like, was willing to say no.

00:49:54.121 --> 00:50:02.512
He was willing to push back a little bit and give a little bit of of an honest opinion when appropriate, which shows a lot about that the character and who he is.

00:50:02.512 --> 00:50:04.054
So that was part one of our conversation with Ariel Bargeau.

00:50:05.797 --> 00:50:08.139
Part two will focus on his ascension within the field.

00:50:08.139 --> 00:50:12.766
Dig into his day to day and shine a light on how someone becomes a master of their craft.

00:50:12.766 --> 00:50:15.050
Thank you so much for joining us, ariel.

00:50:15.050 --> 00:50:16.811
We also thank you for joining us.

00:50:16.811 --> 00:50:22.054
If you enjoyed the show, please tell your friends, click, follow on your podcasting platform and give us a five star rating.

00:50:22.054 --> 00:50:34.014
Also, if this episode or others inspired you to think of someone interesting in your life who could be a great guest on the show, please send us a note via the contact form on know wrong choices dot com.

00:50:34.014 --> 00:50:37.170
On behalf of Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:50:37.170 --> 00:50:38.054
I'm Larry Samuels.

00:50:38.054 --> 00:50:42.054
Thank you again for joining us and remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success.

00:50:42.054 --> 00:50:45.539
We learn from every experience.